which one best for jazz?

[mike]

Your 4311's are probably a better speaker for listening to jazz than some of the speakers people have recommended to you.
Mike

[Doc Mark]

Evening, All,

We listen to a fair amount of jazz on our L300's, and love the way it sounds so very "alive"! Some may fault a lack of vocal mid-range detail, but we've surely not noticed it. We listen to Oscar Peterson stuff, Monk, Weather Report, Miles Davis, Stanley Turrentine, Woody Herman and his Thundering Herd, Stan Kenton, Lee Ritenour, John Tropea, and lots of other stuff, including lots of Manhatten Transfer, and Take Six, and haven't found anything lacking in the detail of our three way JBL's. Someday, I'd love to complete a four way setup, and compare those to our L300's. I'm sure they would both sound great. For what it's worth.... Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[pyonc]

Your 4311's are probably a better speaker for listening to jazz than some of the speakers people have recommended to you.
Mike

I'm pleasantly surprised by your comment. Do you have any particular reason for this? In a small room like mine, 4311 seems to be enough for me, but because I am thinking of having a little bigger 'listening room', I'd prefer a more powerful system like 4343 or other bigger vintage systems of the 60s and 70s...

[pyonc]

Hi pyonc, welcome to the LH Forum.....

I listen to my Jazz driven by a McIntosh C-22 pre-amp and MC240 amp. I sometimes switch to a different amp, an integrated NAD 2200 Power Envelope, with the same Mac C-22. I am using a Denon DP-40F turntable for my source.

I like to listen LP's with 50's, 60's, 70's Jazz....Miles, Wes Montgomery, Oscar Peterson, Bill Charlap, Nat King Cole others....

My speakers on this system are Altec Carmels 2 ways (2 - 12" and 811b horns) circa 1964, and I also have a set of Altec 605A's 2 Ways(15" with horn load) circa 1962 that are in 4 cu ft cabs. I really like the vintage sound that I get with these units. It is very warm and gives a kind of nostalgic feel for this vintage Jazz.....just marvelous......

I also have a set of JBL L101's, 2 Way (LE14A and 175 horns) in the other room.....these speakers sound fabulous with any and every kind of music including vintage Jazz.....very warm, detailed, great lows and fabulous midrange....hard to beat these, period.

On this same system (its a big room) I can switch to two sets of JBL's that I have. One set of JBL 4343B and the other 4333A's. When running all four I use (2) NAD 2200 Power envelope amps, one amp for each set, not bi-amped. The sound with these big JBL blue face beauties is absolutely stunning! Surely there is much more musical detail and all the little nuances come alive, as Mr Widget recommended using an accurate speaker for.

Also, I have a very loving and tolerant wife who lets me hook up all kinds of gear in the living room....I have been trying to learn about what I really like....fortunately she digs the tunes also, and we spend plenty of time together listening to all kinds of music....sometime I suppose I will have to make a decision about what I want to keep and find the right spot in the living room and den for these dudes...

I would say if you are after a perfect reproduction of all the detail and a full range of sound from your lows lows to high highs, the newer more accurate speakers are the way to go. But if you prefer the warmer more vintage sounding nostalgic feel of some of these beautiful older systems, then the 50's or 60's speakers are the way to go.....its all about what YOU really enjoy. I prefer to have both and be able to switch between them at any given time, if that is possible for you.

Also, for the cost of all those drivers and all that work to build your own, you may be able to find a real nice set that just needs a little TLC to restore to its original specs...especially in your neck of the woods....plenty of vintage gear up there for sale all the time....

Here's a few Pics.....happy listening..... Shaan

Thanks a lot for your kind comments. Actually I listen to jazz through a Marantz receiver, not a seperate preamp and amp like you. So, that might give me a less satisfactory feel, though I'm not sure. Maybe someday I'd buy them... Regards, Changsop.

[pyonc]

The S8R have lots of issues. One of the big 4-ways, or any modern speaker will have less issues.

The only time the S8R's shine is when you feed them with few instruments/voices to work with, in other words complicated program material makes one big mess.

I guess a complete rework of the crossovers will change this to some degree, but haven't given it priority yet.

What do you mean by "lots of issues"? Could you explain a little more?
Thanks.

[yggdrasil]

The two major issues are uneven frequency response and bad resolution.

[mike]

What I was saying was that some of the old systems that are so highly regarded for old Jazz listening by some (especially in Japan) to put it simply don't really sound that good. The 4311 sounds better than a lot of them. The 4343 that you mention is the one exception.

Mike

[jbl_daddy]

If you can get a pair of L300's I feel you would love them. Mine hade to leave due to the wife factor when the 4340's showed up. I would be intrested in hearing the differance between an L300 and a SR8, that is the one with the Paragon parts right?

[Mr. Widget]

I I would be intrested in hearing the differance between an L300 and a SR8, that is the one with the Paragon parts right?

The S8R vs. the L300... the older JBL cabinets were less well designed, so the cabinet is less inert and therefore colors the sound more than it should. The Olympus and Sovereign cabinets place the mid and HF drivers too low for most listening situations. The S8R's 375 is decidedly superior to the L300's LE85, but the older crossovers were not well designed. The 075 from the S8R isn't as good with the UHF as the 077 from the L300 and the passive radiator tends to have an upper bass emphasis that many do not like as well as a properly designed ported cab.


Widget

[bone215]

I listen to jazz in my living room on two systems, JBL L100t and 4412A studio monitors.
Over all, with good source material, the studio monitors are much more accurate and realistic.

[roads31]

Hello Changsop,

Thought I might chime in as well. Although I cannot comment on the 4XXX series I can vouch for the C40 Harkness cabinets with jazz, outstanding. I have compared them to my Metregon and Sovereign's which do sound great but don't seem to deliver instruments such as horns and upright bass nearly as well. Also, your source is going to play a huge role in your choice, a speaker like the C40 will expose any weakness in your amp(s) or preamp.

Good luck on the hunt and enjoy the ride!

[BMWCCA]

Forget me if I'm wrong but, isn't an ideal speaker able to reproduce any kind of music?

I'm happy to see someone else expressing what I was thinking.

I have something like 13-pair of JBLs. Some work well on certain types of music and some work better on others. My 030s (D130/075) really shine on stringed instruments but lack substantial ruffle-your-pants low-end even though I managed to rock through the '60s and '70s (and '80s, '90s and most of the first decade of 2000) with them. The L7s play nearly anything well, kick-butt on the loud and low stuff, though I know that on horn-based music the 4333/L300 will shame them. But the best of the bunch are the 4345s and I've yet to find anything they don't reproduce well, unless it's just a poor recording. They go soft, they go loud. They play high, and they will rattle the doors and windows. With them I find nuances I never heard in recordings I've been listening to for thirty years.

Some cars handle the back-roads well and others take to the highway. Some do both well, and are still fun on the track. Most compression-driver JBLs seem to do it all.

[Ducatista47]

I agree, BMW. I am a big fan of the 4345. I am sure that the newest systems, like Array, K2 and Everest II are even better performers (I have not heard them). The one weakness of the 4345 - and all big three and four way speakers - is diffuse imaging. If imaging is really important to you, Single Driver augmented with a decent sized cone will do it better than any speaker with crossovers, vintage or modern. I personally don't find the trait to diminish my enjoyment of the 4345.

I think of the 4345 as the one vintage speaker I am aware of that does not give anything away to modern speakers costing less than an automobile that I could afford. It is also in a class by itself re: not needing a subwoofer for music.

The questionable future of recone kit availability has me worried about maintaining these older speakers. When the 2245H dies for good it will be a loss that nothing can replace.

Clark

[BMWCCA]

When the 2245H dies for good it will be a loss that nothing can replace.

They're sounding pretty good right now playing Bill Evans' Quintessence (thanks to Clark for that).

I'll likely wear out before my 4345s since my 2245s were re-coned about three years ago.

[pyonc]

Hello Changsop,

Thought I might chime in as well. Although I cannot comment on the 4XXX series I can vouch for the C40 Harkness cabinets with jazz, outstanding. I have compared them to my Metregon and Sovereign's which do sound great but don't seem to deliver instruments such as horns and upright bass nearly as well. Also, your source is going to play a huge role in your choice, a speaker like the C40 will expose any weakness in your amp(s) or preamp.

Good luck on the hunt and enjoy the ride!

Thanks for your comment. Actually I feel always mystic about how the back-loaded horn speaker system like C-40 sound on jazz, and you give me some sense of it.