Anyone Have Experience with Squeezebox2

[Don McRitchie]

I have been looking into replacing my near 20 year old CD player. However, I just recently came across information on a new high tech gadget from Slim Devices that has me rethinking my approach. Basically, this device allows you to wirelessly connect your stereo to your PC which acts as a music server. It includes software that lets you losslessly rip and compress your CD's to a hard drive. A 300GB drive (which can be had for $200) can losslessly store approximately 1000 CD's. The device is only $299 so the DA converter quality is likely suspect. However, you can output the digitial stream to a DA converter of your choice so that is not a concern for me.

I'm interested if anyone here has any experience with this device since, right now, all I have to go on is the manufacturer's hype.

http://www.slimdevices.com/

[Don McRitchie]

Further checking indicates that my request for experience with Squeezebox2 is moot since the product has yet to be released (target March 31 shipping). However, any experience with the original Squeezebox would be relevent to me. A cursory scan of net reviews for the older version resulted in almost uniformly positive feedback.

Don

[GordonW]

We sell 'em here... had the original Squeezeboxes, waiting for the II's. They seem to work very well. If the MP3 is recorded hi-fidelity (good data rate, ie, above 128K, from a good source), then they sound pretty darn good. Good enough, that we were actually noticing improvements in the sound, putting them in front of good TUBE PREAMPS and such (VAC)...

No, it's not going to match the sound from a Benchmark DAC1 decoder, but it's definitely better than radio... even better than most satellite radio broadcasts. Definitely enough for anything other than super-critical listening.

Regards,
Gordon.

[kevf]

Don,
if you're looking for a cost effective way of setting up a PC music server, you may want to check out the EMU 0404 sound card for your PC. This card is widely regarded as one of the best in its price range - at $100US. I bought one last month (also to replace my 10 year old CD player) and the difference was dramatic. The EMU 0404 is also better than my M-audio Transit USB soundcard.

I rip all my CDs using Apple Lossless. My other source is a VPI MK III turntable but the sound from the PC is very very good.

The guys over at the head-fi forum are all over the EMU. Info here:
http://www5.head-fi.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=59

I tell ya. Its awfully convenient to have all my CDs on the PC. I find my vinyls are getting increasingly less plays these days...

Kevin

[Don McRitchie]

Well, I broke down and bought one and it arrived today. I have had all of two hours to play with it. So far, this device has the potential to be the absolute koolest gadget I have ever bought, and this is coming from a certified geekhead.

In advance of getting this device, I threw another two 250GB drives into my computer for less than $300. I now have 1TB in disk storage on just this one machine. Just one drive is being used for storing music, while the other new drive is strictly a backup. I can get at least 400 CD's on one drive with no compression whatsoever. If need be, I can convert to either Win media lossless or FLAC lossless compression to store even more CD's and still play back through the Squeezebox (Apple lossless is also supported).

The beauty of this device is that it is wireless and can be opperated through one of the most effective remote control based user interfaces I have encountered. Given the limitations of a hand held remote, I was amazed that I could get to any song in my library in just a few presses of the remote buttons. The LCD display on the device was so intuitive to use that I was up and running out of the box in no more than ten minutes.

I had ripped around 100CD's in advance of the device's arrival. I'm pleasently surprized that the average ripping time is only 5 minutes per CD so that this is a very managable task. I've also linked my MP3 library to the device so I now have around 2000 songs to play with.

So far, the sound quality is very impressive. Of course, MP3's still suck through this device due to the massive compression. However, uncompressed CD's sound identical to me through Squeezbox compared to my CD player. I even queued up the same song on both my CD player and Squeezebox to A/B them in real time and I have yet to detect a difference. There is absolutely no noise or RF interference like I have come to expect from a direct PC hookup.

The convenience factor is unbeatable. I don't have to be at my computer to set up playlists or change songs. I can stay in my listening seat and use the remote to instantly select new songs from a list of thousands. There is absolutely no lag in selecting tracks out of order like you get on a CD player. For the first time, I can also control the volume by remote since the Squeezebox has variable output levels.

Colour me impressed.

Don

[pmakres1]

I am real new to this end of things. What if your PC is in a different room from your Stereo system?

[Don McRitchie]

My PC is in a different room from my stereo. The device works off of a standard PC wireless network. This means buying a wireless router which can be had for as little as $50 and connecting it to your PC. Once your wireless network is set up, you can place the Squeezebox anywhere in your house and the only wires hooked up to it are the power cord and the RCA cable to your pre-amp. The range of a wireless network is generally around 1000ft. I know that I have picked up my home network from a laptop in my car from a block away.

[pmakres1]

My PC is in a different room from my stereo. The device works off of a standard PC wireless network. This means buying a wireless router which can be had for as little as $50 and connecting it to your PC. Once your wireless network is set up, you can place the Squeezebox anywhere in your house and the only wires hooked up to it are the power cord and the RCA cable to your pre-amp. The range of a wireless network is generally around 1000ft. I know that I have picked up my home network from a laptop in my car from a block away.

Hi Don,
I thought maybe that was it-I too have a wireless router (Linksys 2.4 Ghz) for my laptop. And these can both work from the common Ethernet that is connected to the router from my PC? Forgive me if some of my questions on this seem silly!

Peter

[Don McRitchie]

It's not silly. The device can either be hard wired with an ethernet cable to your router or it can run wirelessly like a wireless laptop. It is compatible with both "b" and "g" series wi-fi standards, which pretty much includes every router made. Since every wireless router that I have seen can handle at least 4 wireless devices, the Squeezebox would not interfere with your laptop if both were in use at the same time.

[Don McRitchie]

It's now been 48hrs that I've had this device and my original assessment hasn't changed. This is the most fun I've had with any audio device or any gadget period.

It hasn't been entirely trouble free. The server software that comes with it has some bugs. However, I've only encountered them when using the non default interface. The standard interface is quite stable. This morning, I couldn't get the device to connect to the network. It took me about 20 minutes of futzing around, but eventually, a reboot of my router got it running. I don't think this was related to the Squeezebox but rather my router since my laptop wouldn't connect either during this time. Twice now, I've heard a static spike at the beginning of a song. I've gone back and played these songs again, and there is no spike. Not sure what this is, possibly the buffer running out. Other than this, it has been trouble free. It has been running 6 hours now without incident, and yesterday evening, it ran for eight hours without interruption.

The flexibility of this device is what makes it so much fun. I've basically had my entire CD collection on shuffle play during all the time that I am in or awake. Mostly it's backgound music as I go about my business. But then I'll hear a song that grabs me, and I just sit down and listen. Ususally, it's a CD I haven't played in months or even years. With a couple of remote clicks, I'll listen to the entire CD. Then it's back to the shuffle play. I'm rediscovering songs and albums I had pretty much forgotten about.

One feature that I was not aware of with this device is its ability to act as an internet radio receiver. Through Shoutcast and other streaming radio servers, you can connect to thousands of internet radio stations, all through the hand held remote.

The server software is a web based application. This means that you can access it from any computer on your network. For example, if I find the remote control interface is just too time consuming for a certain task, I can fire up my wireless laptop at my listening seat and connect to the server software running on my desktop in my bedroom. The server software itself is one of the most customizable applications I have run. Virtually every feature of the server and the Squeezebox hardware can be customized through the web interface. You can even change the interface of the Squeezebox hardware. The software is open source with numerous outside developers writing plugins. For example, through a default plugin, you can have the player display news headlines from any news website with an RSS feed when in screen saver mode. Personally, I don't have a need for this, but the geek in me finds it cool. There are also numerous screen savers such as analog VU meters and spectrum analyzers that can display on the player's front panel when in screen saver mode.

All of this is cool from a technology perspective, but it would be quite useless to me if the sound quality was substandard. This is just not the case. I'm running a full 1411kb/s PCM data stream from the original wav files to a 24bit A/D converter in the player. I have still yet to discern an audible difference from my dedicated CD player. If this keeps up, the CD player will soon be up in the closet because, right now, I don't see a role for it.

[Tom Loizeaux]

All this wireless, computer interface, gigabyte stuff sounds impressive, but it makes my head spin. Shoot, I still feed my sound system with a consumer CD player...a single disc version to boot!
I've worked for a year to get my system set up so that all I have to do is turn everything on, put a CD in, hit play, and sit down. No need to push buttons or fiddle with tone controls ... I just let the system make the music happen.
I think it's all I need. Am I really missing something?

Tom

[Bernard Wolf]

All of this is cool from a technology perspective, but it would be quite useless to me if the sound quality was substandard. This is just not the case. I'm running a full 1411kb/s PCM data stream from the original wav files to a 24bit A/D converter in the player. I have still yet to discern an audible difference from my dedicated CD player. If this keeps up, the CD player will soon be up in the closet because, right now, I don't see a role for it.

Yes, but Don, aren't you comparing it to a 20 yr old CD player ? Hows about up against something a bit more up to date? Or better yet, vinyl ?

B

[boputnam]

...I can get at least 400 CD's on one drive with no compression whatsoever. ... The convenience factor is unbeatable.

Cool!

All you seem to lack is a wine pourer - I'm eminently qualified!

[Bernard Wolf]

Shoot, I still feed my sound system with a consumer CD player...a single disc version to boot!
I've worked for a year to get my system set up so that all I have to do is turn everything on, put a CD in, hit play, and sit down. No need to push buttons or fiddle with tone controls ... I just let the system make the music happen.
I think it's all I need. Am I really missing something?

Tom

Not unless you would like your music served up tepid...

Bernard

[Don McRitchie]

Yes, but Don, aren't you comparing it to a 20 yr old CD player ? Hows about up against something a bit more up to date? Or better yet, vinyl ?

B

Sorry Bernard, but I do not share your views on vinyl. I have heard $50,000 vinyl rigs and they come across as flawed to me. Aside from the issues of noise and wear degradation, vinyl definitely sounds different but not better to me. There are very valid reasons why vinyl sounds different. The vast majority of records (and I mean over 99%) have the bass summed to mono below 50hz and hard filtered at 30hz. Otherwise, albums with any degree of bass could not hold more than 10 minutes of music due to the goove size. The same vast majority of albums have HF cuttoff at 15khz otherwise the cutting heads would overheat. That's not as big an issue for me since that's about the limit of my hearing.

The fact that vinyl is an inherently equalized media means that the record and playback equalization is another area for sonic differences. It is not unknown for high end pre-amp designers to purposely tweak the RIAA curve in their products and this results in sonic differences. Feedback is another issue I cannot ignore, no matter how well isolated, I have never heard a turntable that is completely immune to feedback.

Finally, though I deferred talking about the noise issue from the start of this discussion, it is possibly my overiding issue. I cannot hear past the pops clicks and hiss that many who enjoy vinyl can. Not to mention that response and noise issues only get worse with every play.

Regarding modern CD players, I have listened to a number and never been able to discern a difference. I am not alone in this. While I don't intend to preach double blind testing as the be-all and end-all, it remains a fact that no-one has ever demonstrated a sonic difference in double blind tests between two competently designed CD players (and I mean excluding cheaply and poorly designed mass market gear).

None of this is intended to invalidate your personal experience or preferences. I have no doubt that you have discerned differences between various high-end CD players and truly find that vinyl sounds better than digital. More power to you. The point is that I have not and therefore have made my choices based on my preferences and experience.

BTW, you should check out the audiophile criteria that were used in the design here:

http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_faq.html#about2-audio

This is not a mass market, lowest common denominator design.