JBL 4430 vs JBL L300 summit

[toddalin]

Well that's the point, not to place them that way. That's what I was getting at. You can make them sound better using short stands like in the Kendric Sound picture I posted. You are making claims about how tubby the 4430's are and you don't have them placed as well as you could. People try to help you and you get argumentative and defensive.

None for me, I always place my speakers to get the most out of them. What's the point of not setting them up if they don't sound their best?? Why bother??

As far a problem comparing the 4430 to the L300. You not placing them optimally makes any comparison between the two worthless.

Rob

The OP asked for opinions.

No one said a word until me, nor would they probably have. In fact, other than me, no one still has yet to offer any comparison between the two.

All most have done is accuse me of an "improper setup" even though this is the way the speaker cabinets are physically designed to sit, this is the way they are typically used in a home setting, and that this is the way they used to place them for audition back in the day when they were sold in high end audio stores and places like Orange County Speaker. (Yeah I was in those places too.)

As for making claims that they are tubby in the position they are in, it's not a claim, it's an opinion that just happens to be backed up by the RTA. Someone could have simply said that even though this is the typical setup, the tubbyness is reduced if the speakers are raised without laying into me.

As far as not raising them making any comparison between the two worthless, well I guess that I was not aware that raising them will extend their high end by ~4,000 Hz or ruin their nice soundstage and imaging.

You guys are too much.

[Robh3606]

Someone could have simply said that even though this is the typical setup, the tubbyness is reduced if the speakers are raised without laying into me.

Well I hope you don't think I laid into you. The only point I was try to get across was raise them off the floor. Just try it and see if you like them better that way.

You guys are too much.

Well I guess we are. The whole point about doing good comparisons is to get each speaker pair set-up as best you can to make a fair comparison between the 2 different pairs. It's just my opinion but anything less than that makes for unfair and inconclusive comparisons.

Rob

[702retrotodd]

QUOTE=Robh3606;289710]Well I hope you don't think I laid into you. The only point I was try to get across was raise them off the floor. Just try it and see if you like them better that way.



Well I guess we are. The whole point about doing good comparisons is to get each speaker pair set-up as best you can to make a fair comparison between the 2 different pairs. It's just my opinion but anything less than that makes for unfair and inconclusive comparisons.

Rob[/QUOTE]

Gee guys no one has answered the Q what sounds better??? I have had a pair of 4430's they are incredible speakers. if they had a 2405 in them they would be selling for 5,000.00 a pair all day! If the L-300 images as well as the 4430 I am sold. I have 4341's now might be looking to try the L-300's. Just the lack of the top end bothers me on the 4430's. the 2405 is really sweet!!!

[remusr]

The only room I have heard both is my 17'x26' basement music/rec room, sitting on carpet/underlay/concrete, driven by McIntosh C41/MC352. Speakers sit on the floor without any risers beyond their factory base.
4430 - I don't know if something is wrong with my 4430's, but I can't describe their sound as positively as others in this 2010 thread.Their sound is full & rich but hampered by poor definition due to lack of high end. The bass is solid & full not tubby to me, maybe a bit of 60-70Hz bump but not irritating. Very difficult clarity on some female voice, strings, guitar, horn but OK on bass/baritone instruments & great dynamics & presence - a bit like the L100's without the sizzle / headaches and with much better bass. Clarity probs are probably due to lack of top end. Imaging seems Ok but nothing special compared with modern hifi speakers.
L300 - my L300's have a bit flatter bass, may go a bit deeper than the 4430's or it may just be the lack of that 60-70Hz bump. Clarity and high end is an order of magnitude better than 4430's, imaging probably a bit more solid. I would recommend my L300's over my 4430's by a country mile. I mostly listen to my 4345's but do listen to the L300's occasionally; I do not have the 4430's in rotation any more.
I have confirmed the 4430 horns are ok by swapping in other 2425's with no change and xovers look ok, no obvious heat issues and they have been in a low stress home environment to date, but I have not replaced any caps or anything. Both 4430 and L300 have JBL-reconed 2235H's. I have owned the L300's since 2005 and 4430's since 2006.
PS - I thought that speakers need to be securely connected to their support, including using spiked feet or similar; putting on phone books or wheeled bases would be contrary to that principle. As would hanging by a chain I guess, so who knows.

[4313B]

Gee guys no one has answered the Q what sounds better?

Seriously?

How many 4430's are out there compared to L300's? It isn't even a contest.

There is nothing wrong with the 4430/4435 top end. Some people merely have a preference for greater high frequency output. When I get to be around eighty years old and need my high frequencies force fed to me I'll probably break the slots out of their boxes too. Right now they sound their best cuddled up in their cute little shipping boxes in the top of my closet. <canned laughter>

The 4333 had a big advantage over the L300 in that one could get that woofer up off the floor where it doesn't belong. We've been through all this before with respect to these old woofers and their aversion to strong boundary reinforcement. Think L250 or 250Ti and how high up off the floor that LE14H is.

In any case, if I had a pair of L300's today I'd be trying the Nelson Pass filter pronto. It could be quite cool.

[remusr]

4313B - my 4430 experience seems totally at odds with yours. My L300's (and 4345's of course) sound far superior. Can you suggest a procedure to check what must be wrong with my 4430's cuz I do not like them? I have swapped 2425's and looked at the xovers but what can I tell from looking other than nothing burnt. Wiring as received, and now, is as schematic diagram. Inexpensive 1/3 octave analyzer with white noise looks ok other than drooping off over 10kHz (L300 doesn't do this). I don't have a scope.

[mech986]

http://www.audioheritage.org/html/pr...bl/4430-35.htm

Important to review, especially about the driver/horn response up to 15K and what they did to make sure it was up there.

http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/...84-4430-35.htm

with all the response curves.

I'd say that if the drivers actually drop off after 10K, then you need a new set of OEM JBL titanium diaphragms and have them installed well. Check the current drivers to see if they are correct JBL diaphragms and what condition they may be in.

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Stu...ies/4430LR.pdf

Crossover diagrams in case you want to work on them.

[4313B]

4313B - my 4430 experience seems totally at odds with yours. My L300's (and 4345's of course) sound far superior. Can you suggest a procedure to check what must be wrong with my 4430's cuz I do not like them?

You might want to check the condition of the foam in the back caps of the 2421's, 2425's or 2426's.

It could be that you simply prefer the L300's. Nothing at all wrong with that, regardless of my typically snarky sentence with respect to the slot. I have a love/hate relationship with the ring-radiators, I think it started to manifest around 1982.

The 4430 and 4435 will always rank a little higher on my personal scale than the L300 or 4333. I will always like the looks of the L300.

[ngccglp]

4313B - my 4430 experience seems totally at odds with yours. My L300's (and 4345's of course) sound far superior. Can you suggest a procedure to check what must be wrong with my 4430's cuz I do not like them? I have swapped 2425's and looked at the xovers but what can I tell from looking other than nothing burnt. Wiring as received, and now, is as schematic diagram. Inexpensive 1/3 octave analyzer with white noise looks ok other than drooping off over 10kHz (L300 doesn't do this). I don't have a scope.

Hi remusr, I don't think there is anything wrong with your 4430, nor mine. The sound is exactly as you described. Perhaps we just prefer the sound of the 43 series.

[Audiobeer]

I've owned them both. At very low listening levels I preferred the L-300s because the 077s were a little more forward as well as the midrange. I never listened to music as background however. When set up right my 4430's had the better soundstage. If I had to make a choice between the two again, I'd go with the L-300s so I didn't have to hear the endless nagging about the appearance of the 4430's and because of resale value. However if I was a blind man and single I'd pick the 4430s every time.

[remusr]

Thanks for the kind advice. I will try again. Will open up the 4430 boxes and inspect everything again. Maybe swap the 2425's again.

[turnitdown]

It has been YEARS since the last post in this thread but, I got a pair of 4430s, finally, and this thread was, at the same time, sad, funny, informative and fruitful. I decided I would build 11 2/1 inch risers for them. No more tubbiness as measured in room and subjectively better. Thanks

[1audiohack]

And years later the fact is that even though 4430's have bases on them, they are voiced to be soffit mounted.

Answering the OP's original question is moot at this point so I am going to share a very recent experience on the actual mixing front.

I have a friend, yeah I know, hard to believe! that mixes at a restaurant bar that has quality live music. The stage snake is split and there is another board in a control room where he mixes the audio for recording and the video feed.

He owns nearly every real current JBL studio monitor and many 43 and 44 series vintage monitors. In this room his monitor choice is the 4430. The main reason is that what is mixed and mastered in this room on these speakers has pop and jump when listened to later in the car or at home, on like the 4365's, the end result is that the mix sounds good out in the world on the systems we listen to.

Real studio monitors are tools. 4430's dont need to be flat to 40k to create a great live music mix. They need to be flat where the music is and not fatiguing after hours of fairly loud monitoring.

The fact that many of us own and like them at home does not change the fact that they were designed as a large format, soffit mounted monitor voiced for fairly loud playback. Is it any surprise they don't sound great playing softly on the floor in a living room?

This is not a rant, this is hopefully helpful.

I have many real JBL large format studio monitors and my favorite, for my living room, at normal home levels is the 4365, that in truth, despite having a 43 series part number, was designed for domestic use.

Choose the right tool for the job.

Barry.

[turnitdown]

Great answer. 4430s are special.

[Mr. Widget]

I have many real JBL large format studio monitors and my favorite, for my living room, at normal home levels is the 4365, that in truth, despite having a 43 series part number, was designed for domestic use.

Choose the right tool for the job.

Philip Newell discusses this in more detail in his excellent book, "Loudspeakers for Music Recording and Reproduction".

Someone here recommended this book a while back and I have only recently started reading it. It discusses cables, speaker design, and many other topics frequently ranted on and not well understood in many on-line conversations.


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