Altec 816 vs 828

[Dr.db]

I need to beat feet. Allow me to digest your comments to see if I can help you further.

No hurry, I gladly give you time
I just answer right away to put my thoughts down, otherwise I might forget´em....

The Klipsch Belle is a short horn, too short and too small a mouth area to develop a solid 40Hz wave like the K-horn.

I would use the Klipsch Belle solely with a adequate subwoofer!
So something around 60hz would be great, or how low does the Belle fully hornload ?

Have you ever looked into the Klipsch Jubilee? It's a dual 12" single axis compression loader, perhaps too large for your environment, but Paul himself praised it over the box that made him famous. A pair of E120's would do very nicely in that box. You could actually build single versions if you like, if you have the floor space. I think the half version would out perform the Belle.

Yes, but too big at the moment, sorry....
I believe it would outperform a Belle easily.
Seems to be close to a Hartsfield...

[maxserg]

If you are to believe the JBL TS sheet the 2220 is way better. The only thing that the E145 has thats better is lighter cone. The 2220 has higher fs, lower q, lower LE and way highter BL. As a matter a fact the E145 doesnt look like a very good horn loading candidate at all looking at those specs. In theory that is, in practice it might be another matter.

Dr.db
I think it would be better if you built your own mid bass horns and worked out another solution for the sub 100Hz frequencies.

Maybe something like this? This guys homepage was a catalyst for my own project startup.

http://www.volvotreter.de/index.htm

/Mostly

Lots of horn loaded systems were with the k-140 E-140. The 145 is a bit different, goes lower but it still was designed for musical instruments (organ, keyboards and bass) like the 140. I"ve seen the K-140 in Martin bass bins, A-7, 4560, etc ant they were succesful. Just my 2 cents

[Mostlydiy]

Lots of horn loaded systems were with the k-140 E-140. The 145 is a bit different, goes lower but it still was designed for musical instruments (organ, keyboards and bass) like the 140. I"ve seen the K-140 in Martin bass bins, A-7, 4560, etc ant they were succesful. Just my 2 cents

I wasnt talking about the D/K/E-140 but the E145. The D/K/E-140 are exelent drivers for bass horns, not so much for midbass horns because of the low Fs. A friend of mine used E140 in his martin bins and E130 in his 4560, it was a very good match.

/Mostly

[NickH]

I know that you can get away with more in a back loaded horn then in a sealed back front loaded. Plus just because the specs aren't perfect doesn't mean it won't work.

look at me running GPA 416-8b's in a c550 back horn. Not a horn driver but they seem to be quite happy.

keep in mind that either the altec 816 or 829 are actually horn loaded. Its just got a horn put in front. At least that's how it was explained to me. I could be wrong.

I will say that horn fanatic has the gear turning in my head. I might have to try some 130a's in my horns.


Nick

[maxserg]

I know that you can get away with more in a back loaded horn then in a sealed back front loaded. Plus just because the specs aren't perfect doesn't mean it won't work.

look at me running GPA 416-8b's in a c550 back horn. Not a horn driver but they seem to be quite happy.

keep in mind that either the altec 816 or 829 are actually horn loaded. Its just got a horn put in front. At least that's how it was explained to me. I could be wrong.

I will say that horn fanatic has the gear turning in my head. I might have to try some 130a's in my horns.


Nick

I don't know if your statement about horn loading for the 416 but maybe the new GPA 416-8b is a different animal, because the 416 was standard factory installation in the Altec A-7 ...

[Scott L]

Keeping in line with the discussion, and hopefully not too far off topic, but, I thought the Altec 515-8G was the most suitable for horn loading (?) [But] I did the EBP calcs and I came up with a value of only 130.
Do we then double this to arrive at the mass roll-off ?
Let's say we are not concerned with ultra low bass, as the house has subs already, can a driver like the 515-8G be used in a sealed back chamber to drive a short, but adaquately sized, horn ?

[maxserg]

515 were used in a their AX bass horns

[Dr.db]

Just being curious.....

How would E-130 , E-140 and E-145 compare in the JBL 4560 enclosure ?


I suppose E-130 has the best midrange dynamics, E-140 best midbass punch and E-145 the best low-end roll-off...
I´m going to let those run with a single subwoofer crossed at something like 50-60.... What do you guys recommend as the best match ?

[Steve Schell]

For a while I had four 816 enclosures stuffed with 515E and 515 16-G drivers, stacked in pairs as part of my living room system. They didn't stay long as I found the presentation a bit muddy with no real low bass. Come to think of it, the results were similar with the Magnificents (825 cabs) I had owned earlier. The early Lansing Iconic two way systems with their 612 cabs were the only reflex boxes I've really liked, but then IMO the Lansing field coil woofers made the difference there. Never tried field coil woofers in the other systems.

[Dr.db]

Scaling down the 816 enclosure to get a 12"inch frontloaded-midrange horn, which JBL drivers would be well suited for hornloading from 200-800hz...!?
I suppose the rearchamber could be sealed and wouldn`t need reflexports anymore.
Maybe E-120....

[Mostlydiy]

E120 is a real killer as well as the 2202. Either one should rock your house

/Mostly