2242H Subs for Big Bass

[loach71]

Minimize transducer interaction. It's a "best practice" as opposed to a deal breaker or show stopper. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

Thanks for the info.
I've modeled both ways on BB6 Pro and WinISD and havent seen much difference in the repsonse curves between the "two drivers per box volume" and "one driver per box volume" methods. maybe there are some intermodulation issues with using "two drivers per box volume"...

On to the cabinet making (ouch these are HEAVY)

[4313B]

Those programs won't model the fact that no two transducers are identical.

[louped garouv]

no two transducers are identical.

I thought that was why 'matched pairs' command top dollar....

[scott fitlin]

Phew! Getting them was easy! We get to Forward Air near JFK, we back our truck right into the loading dock, the guy literally drives all four pallets right into the truck with a forklift! We get going back to Brooklyn, we get back here, we have a 4000lb liftgate on the truck, LIFE is good.

Taking down the humongous J Horns, oh well, they had their moment! But, you know, Widgets boxes are about as heavy as each J Horn top! But MUCH denser, man, rapping your knuckles on Widgets cabinets is like rapping your knuckles on concrete! These suckers are dense, heavy, and solid as rock.

Tomorrow, they go into place, get wired up, and testing, and tweaking begin, as well as first impressions! After a nice week or two of pounding, then Ill begin to really listen and form my opinion! Gotta break em in.

Must say, they look incredible, well built, and dense as no other cabinet I have ever had the pleasure of owning. And, yes, I really do need a digital cam, badly.

[dieterj]

Hello Scott,

Now you've great looking and building Subs with Jbl inside.

Please can you tell us more later about the Sound and which Amps you try?

[scott fitlin]

First they have to be installed, which we are working on right now. Since J Horns took up 14 and 16 ft of length on the catwalks, when we took em down, floor needs to be painted, as we painted this winter, so, got to make everything look nice. Then we are cutting the wall, to be able to go back the additional 3 inches, as the way this place was originally set up and built, you only have 27in width on the catwalks around the perimeter of the floor/track. The catwalks are about 5-6in higher than the floor and this is where the WidgetWonders will reside, and do what they do.

Amps? For starters, I have Crest 7001,s and 8001,s and Crown Macro Tech 3600,s to try out on them! Two amps required, 1 cab per channel two woofers, 4 ohm load. Lets the chips fall where they fall, whatever sounds best is what I will use. If I want, I can also do a Crest 9001, run at 2 ohms, 4 drivers per channel, which will also work, FWIW, I like the wetter sound, of 2 ohm sub bass, if you have an amp that is up to the task. But, again, whatever works best with these new cabinets and woofers is what dictates what I use.

Gotta tell you, though, these cabinets are really, really dense. The MOST solid cabinet I have ever seen. In comparison, although my J Horns are big and loud, they arent anywhere nearly as well built. Cheap plywood construction, you knock on the box, and it rings. Not good. Widgets boxes are dead, so, you wont hear anything but the music, and thats as it should be. Not to mention, they look classy! Tapered edges, where alot of cabinet makers leave sharp corners and edges. Widget pays attention to the details.

Someone should order a dozen more of these from him! He would love that,

[scott fitlin]

So, two cabs are in place, the other two go into position tomorrow. But I had to hook em up, and put a little signal through them, had to!

Quite different sounding from my scoops and small W bins, the horns have that accentuated kick, great upper bass and bass drive, but not real sub bass.

The WidgetWoofers give me SUB BASS, and clean sub bass. Nice musical sound, I have them on a crown 2402 for the moment, but its not really enough power for them. These things LIKE power, and will sound good with power. It does do what I predicted it to do, put sub bass in the center of the room with my customers. Unlike the long throw J Horns that were in this position, Im not bombarded with bottom behind my console like i used to be, but I can hear them quite well, and they are clean, they go down, and hit that LOW NOTE. And when you get close to them you feel the wind, but they dont offend the ears. I played some music with really good deep bass, and I could feel the air shake, and I liked it, clean and deep. You can hear out to the corners and the middle clearly, no cancellation, and the KICK and rythmic upper bass of my horns and the sub bass of the Widgets combine nicely.

Of course, no where near finished, they need to all be hooked up, ultimate positioning found, and room tuned, etc, and of course, POWER, we want POWER! After the weekend, break out the bigger Crests and the Crown 3600,s! 2 crown 3600,s might be the deal. Two crest 8001,s might be great.

For sure, I hit some notes I havent heard in here, quite the same way! So far so good.

This much I know for sure already, they are clean, and not muddy like the J Horns were, I like these boxes, OH, and the density of the cabinet is fantastic. No resonance, no smearing, you hear the bass in the recordings, not the box. Noticed that right away!

[Rusnzha]

It almost makes me want to move back to New York so I could go check out your Widgets and hit some of those rides again!

[speakerdave]

Scotty, I'd be interested to know what soundware you are using to check those things out.

David

[hapy._.face]

...I used an industrial coating called Zolatone. It is usually seen as a bi-colored finish, but it is available as an all black. It was popular in the 60's as an automotive trunk paint, and I've seen it on older Delta/Rockwell machinery.

Hi Widget.

Older thread, but I must tell you: These are LOVELY!!


BTW, Zolatone is the original paint found inside all the vintage Airstream travel trailors, too. I was told it had mild sound damping characteristics as an added benefit. Tough stuff!!

[scott fitlin]

I wanted to bring this thread back up, as I am now re-installing the cabinets Widget made for me. I have been testing them out in my warehouse, and they really are THAT good.

I actually can listen to these on their own, and they sound good, unlike my folded horns, which only sound decent when everything else is on too, but, truthfully, the old folded horns are too much of a one note sound, and dont do really deep bass all that great.

One thing I leaned about these is that unlike my vintage high efficiency stuff, these things need power. Lots of power, but, feed em right, and they sing. Really good definition, and that nice, but clean transient snap.

I am trying to decide on amps to power them, and I found something I sort of dismissed before. Todays music is very different from yesterdays music, the low end is much deeper in frequency, and when i used these, I ran them on Crown Macro tech 3600,s. I actually didnt love this amp, wasnt tight enough for my taste. I tried a Crown I Tech 8000, and I was really quite impressed with what I heard. Not as fat as the older traditional class AB amps, but, and this was an ear opener, when playing todays digital music, with very low frequency content, I thought it sounded way tighter, and much more " right " than with the Crown 3600. The 3600 just makes the subs sound too fat, and too muddy. The I Tech had the tight punch, and control when playing todays music, and the 2242,s really fucking kicked.

I have a Lab Gruppen being sent for demo, Im told the Labs sound terrific. Ill find out soon! I know these are a major choice in the pro sector.

Widgets JBL loaded cabinets really opened up on the Crown I Tech, I was very surprised.

[Zilch]

Ill tell you this, one thing the speakers of yesteryear, the great ones, had over todays speakers, is transient response. Todays subs take more power, but they dont have that fast snap that used to make bass come to life. In my opinion. I find most of todays sub woofers too garbled sounding, yeah they go down deep, but they have no articulation, and speed, that nimbleness that lets you visualize the instrument and player.

Well, I was concerned....

[scott fitlin]

Well, the JBL 2242,s dont sound like the old 2240,s to me, and the `40,s had more of a midbass snap to them, but dont go down as low as the `42,s!

I had several amps on Widgets cabs this winter, the Crown 3600, and 5002, and Crest 8001,s, and they all made alot of sound, but, still lacked that snap, and tightness that I like to hear. Actually, the crowns were muddier than the crest to my ears.

It was suggested to me to try one of todays high power amps, from the newer lines, and I did. And the I Tech sounds tight, and fast like the way music used to sound years ago, on the amps of that day.

Todays CD,s and downloads need alot of power to brinng the bottom end up to level. I still love the kick that my scoops and small W horns make, but, they dont make really deep bass, and Widgets cabs do. And the depth adds something special to music reproduction.

With the I tech, the speed of the bass was impressive, and finally, I got the transient response I was looking for. The impact was also stunning. But, unlike yeserdays drivers and cabinets, this was so much more power to get to the desired goal.

But, I think I finally found something I really like. It just took a hell of alot more power to get there.

I tell you this, these cabinets play down deep, and do it clean, and the cabinets are so dense you dont hear any rattling, no vibration, just sub bass.

[scott fitlin]

Well, I was concerned....

Its a learning curve for me too. Im learning how to use newer stuff that sounds better with todays music.

But, my 2402,s and Crown D-75,s still work flawlessly!

[allen mueller]

I don't want to go off topic, but i had read over on the Live audio board that the I Techs were having some problems. You may want to see if they have fixed the problems.

On topic I bet the new subs sound great, I have to make some time and drive up to here them.

Allen