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Thread: Beryllium upgrade for JBL compression

  1. #1
    sa660
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    Beryllium upgrade for JBL compression

    Can this be done using driver repair parts?
    Will Berylium extend the frequencies response of JBL compression drivers and tweeters?

  2. #2
    jimd
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    I am on the trail of looking for beryllium diaphragms diaphragms for drivers. The only ones made are in the orient and I am told many are phoneys as there is only one source of real beryllium material. The phoneys are titanium covered with beryllium which is no better sounding than titanium. Working on it, will let you know if I find something, JIM

  3. #3
    Senior Member frank23's Avatar
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    ? why ask twice?

    http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ight=beryllium

    also check out the 4430 Q&D thread where somewhere the difference between the 2431 [aluminium] and 2435 [beryllium] can be found by studying specsheets of the otherwise identical drivers

    after searching for a few hours in the excellent Q&D thread, I found them:

    http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ight=2431+2435

    frank

  4. #4
    Senior Member Guido's Avatar
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    Contact done

    I have contact with the producer.

    Before I start the headache with ordering samples and testing I would like to know who's interested. Please PM me.

    Beryllium Replacement for the 1" and 2" drivers is available! AND the DCR's are right which is important as "8" Ohm Jbls have a DCR of 3.2 Ohm. All the other aftermarket manufacturers "forget" this!!!

  5. #5
    norealtalent
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    My interest would be relative to quality/pricing. I love my 435Be's. I'd love to try some 2" Be dia's in my 2441's. I found an Asian supplier but haven't taken the time to make contact. My 2441 aluminums are great. I can't see gambling a couple hundred bucks on merchandise none of us have any experience with. My guess is interest will be directly proportionate to price.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Guido's Avatar
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    Don't be afraid! It's my headache. I will do extensive testing and report here.

    If they are crap we will forget them fast. If they are nice my interest to import/export them will be price driven also. Believe me

    And... they don not sell them in pieces

  7. #7
    norealtalent
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guido

    And... they don not sell them in pieces
    Come on Guido, you know they're worth more in pieces.

  8. #8
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guido
    I have contact with the producer.

    Before I start the headache with ordering samples and testing I would like to know who's interested. Please PM me.

    Beryllium Replacement for the 1" and 2" drivers is available! AND the DCR's are right which is important as "8" Ohm Jbls have a DCR of 3.2 Ohm. All the other aftermarket manufacturers "forget" this!!!
    Other than the Chinese vendors which may or may not be as advertised, all of the other Be diaphragms seem to come from Japan and Germany. Are you talking with a German or Japanese supplier, or one in China?


    Real Beryllium diaphragms are extremely expensive both from JBL and from TAD. I would doubt any diaphragms that are significantly less expensive than those from either JBL or TAD are of the same quality. There are several methods of manufacture which can affect performance and with any high precision parts like diaphragms, careful quality control is essential.

    Widget

  9. #9
    Senior Member Guido's Avatar
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    100% Beryllium ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
    Real Beryllium diaphragms are extremely expensive both from JBL and from TAD. I would doubt any diaphragms that are significantly less expensive than those from either JBL or TAD are of the same quality. There are several methods of manufacture which can affect performance and with any high precision parts like diaphragms, careful quality control is essential.
    Widget
    Who knows if the "Beryllium" diaphragms are made from 100% Beryllium? Or is it a Beryllium Alloy? I can't find any description telling it's pure beryllium. I can find descriptions telling from pure titanium.
    :dont-know

  10. #10
    Senior Member Guido's Avatar
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    UPDATE

    I'll meet the manufacturer at the music exhibition here in Germany end of march.
    So my testing of the beryllium diaphragms will start in April.

  11. #11
    Steve Gonzales
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    Second that Widget

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
    Other than the Chinese vendors which may or may not be as advertised, all of the other Be diaphragms seem to come from Japan and Germany. Are you talking with a German or Japanese supplier, or one in China?


    Real Beryllium diaphragms are extremely expensive both from JBL and from TAD. I would doubt any diaphragms that are significantly less expensive than those from either JBL or TAD are of the same quality. There are several methods of manufacture which can affect performance and with any high precision parts like diaphragms, careful quality control is essential.

    Widget
    I've recently tried to get the scoop on the chinese dia's. I tracked down and spoke at length to one of the fabricator/ consultants to JBL. He is very well known in that circle. He said the well known chinese dia's are fakes, basically painted titanium!. He also enlightened me about the different manufacture processes. He said the best and most difficult is the forming of the dia. from Be. foil, ala JBL. He said that the second best in his opinion is what is called "sputtering". This process involves a 'vapor deposit' method ala JBL 066 1" dome (see L166 lit. in the library). They take a copper former and 'sputter' the beryllium onto this copper former and then etch the copper off, leaving the beryllium diaphragm. A well known company uses this type. He said that the difference between the two is akin to having forged pistons vs. cast pistons in an automobile engine, respectively. Both are fine, but one is better in his expert opinion. Guido, I hope this information will help you at that meeting and I look forward to reading your impressions, Steve G

    Edit: His quote of one process being better than the other, in context, was regarding the structural absolutes. This is in no way saying that, given that there are other variables, such as, overall driver design characteristics and execution, one should sound better than the other. S.G.

  12. #12
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    The source I had an email from was Taiwan, if that is the case they have the resources so anything is possible.

    JBL were'nt the first to market with Be and I think this will end up like the well established after market for Ti in time.

  13. #13
    Obsolete
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Gonzales
    He said the best and most difficult is the forming of the dia. from Be. foil, ala JBL. He said that the second best in his opinion is what is called "sputtering". This process involves a 'vapor deposit' method ala JBL 066 1" dome (see L166 lit. in the library). They take a copper former and 'sputter' the beryllium onto this copper former and then etch the copper off, leaving the beryllium diaphragm. A well known company uses this type. He said that the difference between the two is akin to having forged pistons vs. cast pistons in an automobile engine, respectively. Both are fine, but one is better in his expert opinion.
    The JBL foil is superior AND it has the added benefit of not killing you.

  14. #14
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    ...AND it has the added benefit of not killing you.
    That's always a good selling point.



    Guido-
    I can't wait to hear the results of your testing. If they are decent- sign me up for a pair!! Maybe several!


  15. #15
    Steve Gonzales
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giskard
    The JBL foil is superior AND it has the added benefit of not killing you.
    Didn't Roberta Flack sing: Killing me softly with his song?.

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