Charge Coupling on the Cheap

[Ian Mackenzie]

Michele,

Good question..

The "sound" difference is really related to the cost ? Yes but not a linear scale and it will depend on other things. What active crossover and amps are you using for example.
If you have expensive amps etc spend accordingly on your crossover to maximise retrieval and transparency of sonic details.

I mean, if I use the AUDIOCAP, the difference will be really "there", or I'll be "biased" by the cost, and could obtain the same result with Clarity cap (or similar products)? I have not used the Audiocaps and I would be careful about what capacitors I used in the 4430. You do not want anything overly bright on the compression drivers. Each brand will have a slightly different sonic signature. Have a look at the Sonicap web page and zip Jeff an email, he is very experienced with capacitor selections

If I use these high-grade capacitors (Audiocap or Auricap) should I still use the bypass capacitors ? No no necessarily , I never bypassed or charge coupled my Hovland 4430 network or Auricaps. And with Clarity cap ? Its a value for money option, I am not saying its the best or the worst. They are a good entry point but they are not a Hovland for example.



My suggestion would be set a budget. and perhaps look at the Auricaps, or the Hovlands as they are not bright like some West Coast film foil capacitors. The Hovlands worked supremely well with that network and the drivers from my own experience. I recall thinking wow, that was expensive but it transformed the 2344 horn into a hi end device.

If on a buget consider or build a Solen/bypassed charge - coupled network.

Pm me details of your system , active crossover etc.

Don't waste time or effort on budget line capacitors, whats in there is probably better.

Hope this helps

[mvaldes]

Thank you very much IAN
This help me a lot



Michele

[Earl K]

Tony Gee(s)' Spring 2006, Capacitor Evaluations .

- Worth Noting; Tony almost exclusively builds "Series Style" networks . This puts the caps ( & coils ) in parallel to the drivers.
- The significance ? One shouldn't ignore the "sound of caps" that are being used as conjugates across the load / ie ; shunted to a common ground. ( This has been stated before , but is worth reinforcing ) .

[4313B]

Have him test biased Solens.

Parallel or series, it doesn't matter, they are equally important. And you're right, it has been stated several times before.

[MJC]

Have him test biased Solens.

I just finished building two CC networks for my main L/R L212s(I used all Solen caps). Thanks Giskard for the posted L212 CC network.
I've been listening to them for the last two days. They are not as dynamic as the bypass cap xovers the CC replaced, but the sound is cleaner and more open. I don't think the difference between the CC and bypass xover is as great as the difference between the bypass cap xover and the original xovers.
In fact at first I only installed the CC in the right L212 and then listened to stereo music, I could tell that the two speakers weren't the 'same'. And that is where I could tell the difference in the dynamics. Then I put the other CC in and then the music was totally clean.

[spkrman57]

You should find a slight change in the sound signature when the caps get some burn-in time.

I usually find the sound gets smoother and less biting after some time.

Ron

[MJC]

Ya, I would expect some change, but not sure in what direction the sound will go.

[Earl K]

Have him test biased Solens.

- I don't know Tony or have any contact with him /
- I would like to read updated reviews of his complete cap collection after being put into a DC biased mode ( I'm sure that would take a few years to accomplish ).

[Earl K]

You should find a slight change in the sound signature when the caps get some burn-in time.

I usually find the sound gets smoother and less biting after some time.

- Biased or non biased , I find caps do tend to get smoother sounding after burn-in .

- I hear the DC charge, as largely adding a bit of damping to the AC signal ( after passing through the caps holding onto the DC potential ) .

- For the last year I've been searching for a DC voltage that balances the positive effects ( of dampening in the midrange & presence areas ) with the negative effect that the same dampening has on UHF frequencies. Generally, I feel that too much DC charge gives an over-dampened effect to the HF and VHF areas,( which is a real bitch to contend with, when running a system without a tweeter.) The UHF "tinklies" will almost actually disappear when the AC signal is overdampened. As a result, all three of my DC voltages are now below 6 volts ( one, as low as 4.5 volts ) . I no longer DC bias my bypass caps for this reason .
- Every few months ( over the last year ) I would bleed off some DC charge ( & perhaps disconnect the battery ) to arrive at a new working voltage. With or without a battery attached , it seems to take a few weeks for the new DC voltage to completely redistribute its' dc potentials across all the ions within the cap. A complete distribution of this DC potential vs a "lumpy" or "disturbed" distribution ( for the same cap ) sounds different to my ears .
- These impressions have been gathered from listening to Altec 288-8K(s) which to my ears ( as I've said before ) , start out with a more dampened HF signature when compared to any JBL compression driver that I've owned or heard .

[Ian Mackenzie]

Earl,

Thanks for the updated impressions.

On my agenda is a biased Solen network in the next few months.

I also want to try an adjustable regulated DC power supply (3-30 volts LM 317) and get some impressions.

Have you tried different batteries..alkaline?

Its funny that most if not all valve amps have a dc blocking capacitor in the signal path with often 100's of volts Dc potential on them. But I have never heard anyone say they lack dynamics.....

Ian

[Ian Mackenzie]

I am not sure quite why but recent comparions of the Clarity cap in hi level signal coupling capacitor application was less than desirable when compared to premium grade Auricaps.

More on this soon

Ian

[MJC]

Its been over three weeks since I finished the Solen CC networks for the main pair of L212s. The sound is as smooth as can be, but the highs are still present.
When listening for extended period of time(3~4 hrs, or more) I get no ear fatique at all. I would only get occassional fatique before, it seemed to depend on the recordings.
With the mains being mirror imaged and CC the L212s have reached their zenith, I'd call that damn good for 29 year old system. Now I'm in even less of a hurry than before to buy new speakers.

[Ian Mackenzie]

My Solen Fast capacitors arrived direct from the factory today so I will start on this over the weekend.

For those interested I managed to order the exact values so there will be no need to parrellel values .All rated 400 volts.

27 uf + 30uf = 14 uf
24uf + 24 uf = 12 uf
16uf + 16 uf = 8 uf
6.2uf +6.2 uf = 3.1uf
3uf + 3 uf = 1.5 uf
2uf + 2 uf = 1 uf

The plan is to have a baseline crossover so I can referecne my measurements and subjective impressions against those of other members and factory recommendations.

I also plan to mod the 5535 JBL active crossover to be current spec with recommendations, bypass all capacitors. I may also try class a bias of the 5332 opamps.

Ian

[Ian Mackenzie]

Initial impressions are favourable.

I'm re wiring the entire system and will post more details shortly

Ian

[Ian Mackenzie]

Well I played a few tunes tonight and I think it is good.

I have decided to start off driving the system full passive using a big HT Kenwood amp rated at 140 watts a side. I figure this it represents a typical mid range mass market amp and it would allow people to relate more broadly to the subjective impressions.

Is connecting the battery audible? Definately. Everything becomes more transparent with a nice clean finish. None of the Solen 400 volt Fast caps are bypassed at this point as i wanted to sart off with a baseline.

My suggestion is that any JBL system of original stock factory design would beneft from a charge coupled Solen crossover network.

Is it better than other capacitors? I don't know yet and I don't propose to comment on any critcal sort of appraisal or do any mods like bypassing until I re organise the system running biamped with my Passlabs amps.

The thing is it works and its not expensive in the real scheme of things.

My bill of parts cost US$108 for the mid, HF and UHF filters.