60-days? And you're not done yet?Originally Posted by mbottz
60-days? And you're not done yet?
". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers
I attached a picture of the input panel for the XPL-200's. When you switch to "Bi-amp", you need an electronic crossover as the woofer will try to play anything you throw at it. In those days, I used an Ashly XR-1000. I later tried using the Ashly with my UREI/2245 combo over the BX-63A. A face-off between the two revealed the BX-63A was superior in the sound quality department. The Ashly reduced resolution a bit and added a bit of noise as well.As described so simply in the L7 Owner's Manual Supplement, there are many forms of bi-wiring but none of them are true bi-amp. My only experience with bi-amped JBLs is with my 4345 which were built intentionally to delete the bi-amp switch so they must be bi-amped. Which requires an electronic crossover. I'm not familiar with the XPLs to know if they work the same way as the L7 but it seems from your message that they have a switch where for the L7 an internal wiring mod must be made to properly bi-amp them. Not sure what's required to achieve the same advantage on the 250Ti.
The Ashly will get you rolling, but if you like what you hear, you'll want to replace the Ashly with something better.With the 250ti I'm supposed to be starting with the better crossover of the series already. The Crown Studio Reference-II was intended for the 250ti from the start. I'm mostly interested in hearing them because of GT's assessment in comparing them to the 4345. If they come even close to those, I'll be impressed. Shouldn't be too hard to pass along if not. The 4345 work just fine bi-amping with Crown PS-200 and PS-400 with Ashly XR1001, but I've heard the 250ti is much more hungry for power.
Nope, you're right. Bi-amping with an active crossover is where it's at.That is an often a debated issue. Depends on what side of the fence your on. If you are a purist you need an active crossover. If you look at JBL Pro Monitors that were bi-amp systems when you turned the bi-amp selector switch it takes out the Low and High pass poles on the drivers where appropriate. And of course they offered an appropriate active crossover.
So that being the case you don't get all the advantages bi-wiring.
Rob
Thanks for that. I've used the Ashly XR1001 now for probably 15-years with my 4345s. Apparently what I don't know won't hurt me!
I've considered Marchand crossovers but last I looked those were over $1200 versus the Ashly at just over $100, used.
When I first started on this list my title was "bottom-feeder" but someone made me take it off at some point.
I still try to work within my used-but-don't-really-need-it-anyway audio budget of $200. That has bought me L80T (actually $50), L96, 4412A, L1, L3, L5, and L7, S38, DCM TF600, Crown PL-200 and PL-400, and even (if I use fuzzy math) a Crown Studio Reference-II. My Crown D75A budget has always been $100. I own two Ashly XR1001s purchased used at I believe $125 each. Ten times for the Marchand is tough to wrap my head around. Oddly enough, I don't seem to have a problem spending five-times that on 40-year-old motorcycles. But then they seldom require thousand-dollar electronic crossovers.
If I had a different crossover on-hand to compare, maybe I'd see the light! For now I'll have to be content living in blissful ignorance!
Now back to the L150A rehabilitation project.
". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers
Since we've gone so far afield from the original topic of this zombie thread, I may as well detour once more.
I finished up the bottom repairs to the L150A and replaced the plinth on one of them. The other is ready tomorrow when the glue dries. Since I used real wood, I'm tempted to leave it in what is close to a matching finish to the speaker's veneer. Or it would be very easy to just make it black like the original crappy plinth. Not that it makes much difference, and I can always flip it upside down later, tape it off, and spray it black. So close to hearing them for the first time. Just a bit of refinishing a few spots to take care of to make them presentable. The drivers are all getting impatient!
". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers
I like zombie threads...LOL
That was my opinion initially as well. rustyjefferson was very generous, and I had so much new stuff to play with, so the BX-63A just sat there for awhile because I figured the Ashly was on the same level. He'd kindly nudge me here and there to try the BX-63A. I did try it, eventually. It opened up the soundstage and added detail to the music. Things I couldn't live without now. If I was in your shoes, I believe a MiniDSP will do the things the Ashly does, but on a much better level while being significantly cheaper than $1,200 while also offering countless other uses as it is programmable. If funds are a concern, how about selling off some of those JBL's once you've finished restoring them? I'm slowly working at getting rid of the things I know I'll no longer use.
On topic with the L150A's, your set is like all the others I've seen come apart- the crossover network is on the bottom! Mine was at the top and my serial numbers were consecutive, ending in "B's", for whatever that meant.
Me too! I've come across countless threads that were revived some five or more years after what was then the last post. To a reader in that position, the time gap is irrelevant, but the knowledge is invaluable.
Derek, Thanks for sharing and encouraging with your electronic crossover experience.Looking in the Link section of the Forums in the Consumer Tech Sheets section, you'll see a separate entry for the L150A-B. This idiot's cursory reading of the circuit diagram leaves me thinking the A-B network schematic is different in the wiring/arrangement, but the same in the components used, so your mention that your crossover was in the top, leads me to believe they changed the manufacturing technique or supplier at some point, requiring an update to the model designation. I see no other changes based on the Tech Sheets supplied.
". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers
How are you using he BX63A to biamp . . . anything? Isn't that dividing network intended for use with the JBL B460 sub? I don't run any subs. What would be needed for my 4345 and what should outperform the Ashly would be the 5234A with the 4345 cards, right?
". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers
There is currently a cheap 5234A on Canuck AudiioMart but the seller doesn't seem to understand the concept of the cards enough to offer an answer beyond that they were used with his 4355. Would that happen to be the same as the 4345, if I can confirm the cards are in there?
And then there's this one: https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/...ds-250hz-12db/
". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers
The primary difference between the Ashly 1001 and the older JBL 5234 is the crossover filter slope. 4th order with the Ashly and 2nd order with the JBL. The 2nd order filters would be as specced by JBL to match the passive networks in the box but there are benefits to having 4th order filters as well. Hard to say that the JBL crossover would be an improvement without actually comparing them.
... What would be needed for my 4345 and what should outperform the Ashly would be the 5234A with the 4345 cards, right?
He's not using it to bi-amp, he's using it as intended for B-460 clones in 8 cubic foot boxes.
Right - BX63A is designed to combine the 2 stereo channels and extract the low bass for a standalone amp to feed the subwoofer.
(I've got one I don't use just to have the matched set - not for sale)
And yes, I didn't dust for you lot ...
2ch: WiiM Pro; Topping E30 II DAC; Oppo, Acurus RL-11, Acurus A200, JBL Dynamics Project - Offline: L212-TwinStack, VonSchweikert VR-4
7: TIVO, Oppo BDP103D, B&K, 2pr UREI 809A, TF600, JBL B460
Yes, I know that. Just got confused thinking the BX was being compared to an Ashly for my purposes but I see that's not the case. Not sure that one bad Ashly spoils the whole bunch. Which is why I'm not ready to jump into changing what's working—even if selling three pairs of JBLs might pay for it. I'm diggin' the variety of the different models and haven't really hit a clinker yet! Granted some have been more disappointing than others.
Listening to some Bill Evan's Trio on the stacked L112/240ti combination while I ready the L150A for its debut in the JBL basement.
". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers
The B63 is a sub woofer crossover
The main outputs to the main loudspeakers have a simple 6db per octave passive filter with no op amps in the signal path. The sub woofer outputs are as l recall 18 db per octave and have op amps to buffer the level control, add bass EQ and provide stereo and mono outputs. The crossover point was 63 hertz. I may have missed some details but that’s basically it.
I don’t think you will appreciate anything different in the 5234 over the Ashley.
Thanks. All the seller can tell me is that it came with his 4355 which he sold. According to the 5234A tech sheet, the 4355 and 4345 use the same chip. Does that sound correct? Other than it being in Canada, the price is reasonable but it looks to have endured a fairly rough life! I've had some unexpected Customs issues with Crown stuff from Canada, but never with the Soundcraftsmen stuff I bought from there. I really don't want any surprises.
https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/deta...r-model-5234a/
". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers
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