question: i have speakers at the oposite side of the room from the amps and have 10meters of speakercable for each speaker....was wandering if i should put the amp behind the speakers and use short cables and then use balanced xlr betwen pre-amp and the amp....thats 10m xlr instead of 10speakercable? would this be better?
regards fredrik
I think you're better off noise-wise using the speaker cable as the longer run. Long runs of low signal preamp cables can pick up noise in a big hurry. Just use some large speaker cables and you'll be fine. Nothing that big Yamaha can't handle.
jblnut
Originally Posted by Figge
either way will be the same, because 10m of balanced cable wouldnt pick up any noise, well shouldnt. so it would be easier to stick with what you have
Both schools say long signal runs do better with balanced lines, less induced noise. But #1 school likes interconnects as short as possible, especially if your unbalanced!
Number 2 school says locate your amps as close as possible to your speakers and keep the speaker cables as short as possible, yeilding the highest damping factor, and best power transfer.
Both work, will you hear a difference? I dont know! I do know a speaker manufacturer told me personally that if you keep your amps close to your speakers, and use heavy gauge speaker wire ( 10ga ) you will get better and tighter bass!
scottyj
ok so should i go for bigger speaker cables? how big? you all know about the jbl bindingposts......i would have to modify the speakers
Being that ive never tried the short speaker cable, big gauge wire, and amps next to the speakers, I might want to hear from someone else if it does in fact make a difference! The closest I get to this is that I use double 10ga runs to my subs! But they are 50ft, and 75ft runs!
10ga should be fine! To fit the wire into the JBL binding posts I would thin the bare ends of the wire just enough to fit into the binding posts!
scottyj
That is not correct.
IMO, if you have the option you should get the amps close to the speakers as possible.
Balanced cables are designed for long runs and noise rejection. Think of it - all pro systems have the console somewhere in the house, sending a balanced run to stage where the amp racks are. Noise levels are very low. This also saves / preserves the damping factor / output impedence of the amps, which we all know is negatively impacted by the additive resistance of speaker runs. Therefore, keep speaker runs short as practicable. Your amps will operate more efficiently. Period.
bo
"Indeed, not!!"
well i have...only need to find 2 xlr cables...probably not cheap, maybe some old cables frome used gear shop? what am i looking for? now nada about pro cables
btw is there some way to get balanced xlr from rca? some adaptor or? thing is my cd and power amp has xlr so that will be the test but my preamp dont...would be great if there was a way to get it work so i dont have start looking for a new..
You do not need expensive wire for cables! Good cable utilizing Neutrik XLR connectors and West Penn or Belden 22awg, 2 conductor plus ground makes fine interconnects!
You can order the wire and connectors from Parts Express, and is as good as anything, as long as you solder your connections decently!
Parts express also has a variety of XLR to RCA or 1/4in adaptors!
scottyj
Hello
If your pre amp already has low impedence balanced outputs your all set to go with the xlr cabling. If the pre amp only has the standard high imp. RCA outputs you will need more than just a hard wired type of adaptor to make the high impedence output low impedence balanced to truly take advantage of the benifits of a balanced signal path. What you would need is in pro sound what we call a DI box ( direct insert or injection ) they come in two different styles passive using only a good quality transformer or active that uses op amps and sometimes a transformer to do the high to low impedence balanced coversion. The active models do require a power source with either an internal battery or supplied from an audio mixer or external power supply via the xlr cable. If you choose to go with the XLR cables to the amps and need the DI box dont skimp on the model you get as you will be adding another stage in your signal path. Good ones would be from BSS, Radial, ARX, Klark Teknik, the upper end Whirlwinds to name a few. Many offer stereo models.
Balanced cable can be ran several hundred feet either mic or line level signal
with no problem.
After saying all of that......your 10 meter/33 feet speaker cable runs are not really that long with some 12 or 10 gauge cable your all set!
Below is a copy of a post I made a year ago, maybe more to someones question about balanced and unbalanced cabling, it kinda explains how a balanced signal path works and does what it does..........
As far as hearing a difference between a balanced and unbalanced connections not really......if the balanced inputs and outputs signals are of the same quality that the unbalanced signals are and vise versa. You will hear a difference if your unbalanced connections are picking up any interferance. As the other have said unbalanced cabling is only good for up to about 20 feet or so not only is noise pick up an issue but depending on the cable you can start to lose some high frequecny signal. The high impeadance of the outputs and inputs in conjunction with the capacitance of the cable acts as a filter for high frequencies. To realize the advantage of balanced cabling your equipment needs to provide balanced inputs and outputs.
Balanced inputs and outputs are the main type of connection in pro audio where cable runs can be in the hundreds of feet. Most connectors are the three pin XLR and the tip ring sleve 1/4 inch jack. For audio pin #1 is ground, pin 2 is signal + and pin 3 is signal -. When mixing and matching makes models and brands of balanced equipment you need to check what polarity it is. Most equipment uses pin 2 as + and pin 3 as - some older equipment used pin 3 as+ mixing the wrong things together could create phase cancellation. This is simple to take care of by making a cable the flips pin 2 for pin 3 at one end.
I'll try to explain what happens within a balanced audio circut, let me know if this make sense.....
The audio signal being carried on two separate lines out of phase with each other and then summed together at the input of the connected piece of equipment. What this does is cancel any noise that is picked up on the cable. Any noise pick up will be equal on both the + & - lines and at the same phase while the audio is of 180 dregees out of phase between the two lines.
At the input of say an amplifier the - line is inverted to be + and equally summs together with the + audio line, but the inversion of the - line while putting the audio signal in phase with it self will put any picked up noise out of phase and durning the summing process the audio signal remains and the noise is canceled out.
Mike Caldwell
Mike makes the most important point, here - shoulda asked that first!
Does your pre-amp have XLR outs? If so, just go find some XLR microphone cables at any audio store. You are good to go. (Unless you develop a ground loop - we'll deal with that later if it occurs...)
bo
"Indeed, not!!"
well thats the problem!Mike makes the most important point, here - shoulda asked that first!
Does your pre-amp have XLR outs? If so, just go find some XLR microphone cables at any audio store. You are good to go. (Unless you develop a ground loop - we'll deal with that later if it occurs...)
power amp has it and cd has it....so thougt i´d test with those and see if its worth to go forward with the hole thing....if so i need to get another pre amp or get some thingie that converts my rca outs to xlr.....
really like the pre-amp
There is really no easy way to convert a single-end RCA to a balanced line out.
So, in this situation, try the speaker runs and see if you get a problem. To minimize RF, use twisted pair, large gauge. The twisted pair will help. Alternatively, you could run a shielded cable, doing the same RF rejection (containment) as twisted pair.
What kinda pre-amp is it? Not many have XLR outs - but you could migrate to the Adcom GFP-750, which does...
bo
"Indeed, not!!"
What kinda pre-amp is it? Not many have XLR outs - but you could migrate to the Adcom GFP-750, which does...
Hi bo!
well its a old sony tae-86....tell me more about the adcom....is it good? any other? 2-300 bucks
The Adcom is great - I got three of them...
http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbull...=adcom+gfp-750
But, they are not $300 bucks. eBay has them fairly freqently, upwards of $650.
bo
"Indeed, not!!"
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