Bo's "Jerry Day" gig

[boputnam]

Bo, This is fine, but you do miss the sound the speaker contributes to the over-all guitar sound.

Yes, and no. Obviosuly you don't get the sound direct off the cone, but IME, the result is so far superior, any "loss" of tone is mooted (and I don't think there is much). I'd bet, A/B blind, you would not tell much difference, and the vastly improved GBF for the entire show is so benefitted, it is a thing to try.

And, Mike - I've tried all those things. The main act I work with now fires their cabinets across stage, rather than in "back line" position. Each instrumentalist now strives to get his/herself louder in their monitors than from their amps - this greatly reduces bleed off-stage, and allows FOH better overall mix control, and equally as importantly, SPL in the FOH are reduced by at least 10dB.

Anyway, it's what is really working for me, and the audience response has been phenomenal - and this is from their loyal fans who know their past, and are are now lusting for the current sound. They couldn't be more complimentary...

We've all learned long-ago to listen to our audience - their ears are as good as ours.

[Mike Caldwell]

Hey
Once you get musicans...young and old alike to get past
what looks cool and do what is pratical and correct you can go from
managing stage volume and bleed to really creating a mix and everyone
benefits from that!

Tom Petty used a 57 for years with no windscreen for vocals, I don't
think it hurt him any! A year or two ago he did make the switch to a
Neumann KSM105, quite a night and day change in microphones!


Mike Caldwell

[edgewound]

Great discussion guys...

Guitar players are a picky bunch when it comes to altering their(my) setup...and tone...and feel of the guitar rig...it's a whole guitar-amp-fingers-hands-body experience that can take a musician to another dimension in his performance...I know...sounds very new-age, or drug-induced, meta-physical....whatever...it's true. I've found that a simple way to tame stage volume for on-stage amps is to put plexiglass in front of the amp, much like a drum cage. I did it for concert where I had a very high regard for the FOH engineer...great guy...great equipment, JBL Array Series, EAW monitors....but he had never seen this done. He loved it because I made it easier for him...gave him no FOH issues, and he didn't have mess with my rig, a single JBL E120...everybody was happy...and I could concentrate on playing, rather than being too loud. As a last mention...Bo has discovered recently with his new Midas board....all mics sound different with different boards...that Beta 57 or 58, won't sound the same on the other guys rig...use what works best for you.

[boputnam]

As a last mention...Bo has discovered recently with his new Midas board....all mics sound different with different boards...that Beta 57 or 58, won't sound the same on the other guys rig...use what works best for you.

Boy-howdy, is that true! I omitted that, having waxed lustily about the Verona on an separate thread. But, those damned Midas mic preamps make SUCH a difference - you can't believe the magnitude of it until you experience it.

Great post, dood...

------

On plexiglass - I've taken to using the drum shield more often than not. In smaller venues it yields control of the room gain back to me. Vast improvement, so-long as the rest of the band keeps on-stage gain under control.

Had a most interesting experience at an outdoor gig, recently. Smaller setting, and I didn't bring the rack with the digital delay - figured we'd be fine and the trailer was overloaded anyway. But, as it turns out the mains placement got complicated, and the drummer ended-up 10's of feet back from where he shoulda. Uh-oh... Sound check was weird, with a VERY delayed acoustic drum sound following after the sound from the mains. Eeek... Sounded like the drummer was outa-sync!!! But he NEVER is. What to do??? Well, I had the drum shield in the trailer, and simply put it up - yup, outdoors. Stopped (reflected back) his acoustic sound DEAD, tightened-up the sound proper, and the show went on. I was laughing to myself all afternoon - cheapest "signal processor" ever found...

[Mike Caldwell]

Hey again

The sound of a mic pre-amp all starts with how the input stage loads
the mics output in terms of resistance and capsitance. What the active
electronics do after that of for that matter don't do is the icing on the cake!
The same is true for the input on a guitar amp of how it loads the pickups or the output stage if it's a active guitar. There was a model of Soldano guitar amps that you change the input resistance and capsitance to best load your guitar.

Back to amp placement ect, when I'm providing for sound for a group that is coming in for a show or festival and have never worked with before I wire and prep the stage per their plot and input list. Even if it's not the most "correct" way to set up a back line or whatever I may make suggstions but it's their show and I do the best with what their final set up is.

I saw the plex in front a guitar rig for a blues player Joe Bottamassa (I think thats close to his name spelling....like I'm a great speller anyway!)
It did really help the people in the front rows form getting drilled by the amps.

Mike Caldwell

[pelly3s]

The only problem with plexi glass that i have found in front of amps is that a lot of guys tend to add more high end to their sound so they can hear it better, or they go a little over board with things like reverb. I found those problems when it was someone who was lets say "unprofessional". I have experienced volume hell though when I went on a small club tour with George Lynch, I had one night at the Chance in New York where his stage volume was 117db at mix position. Needless to say noone can convince him to pad his output down anymore than it was, until I took two tubes out of his plexi on him without him noticing. I love using a drum shield though. Its great when you dont have all the bleed through into the vocal mics.

Ok back onto microphones. The Beta 58A doesnt sound right to me on any rig I use it on. I dont even like it going through the GB30 pres on the MH3 and MH4. I am one for getting creative on microphone selection. For a while I was using CAD M179's on guitars, oh if anyone is interested in a great low priced handheld condenser the CAD C195 is killer, and less than $100. The C195 reminds me a lot of the EV RE-510 not as nice but half the price.

I recently have been doing monitors a lot more than FOH and I learned a nice trick of inverting the phase on the kickdrum mic so that the drum monitor and kick drum then become in phase with each other. Its amazing how little things help so much

[Akira]

Sound check was weird, with a VERY delayed acoustic drum sound following after the sound from the mains. Eeek... Sounded like the drummer was outa-sync!!! But he NEVER is. What to do??? Well, I had the drum shield in the trailer, and simply put it up - yup, outdoors. Stopped (reflected back) his acoustic sound DEAD, tightened-up the sound proper, and the show went on. I was laughing to myself all afternoon - cheapest "signal processor" ever found...

third rule of sound: fix physical problems physically; fix electronic problems electronically.

i prefer the sound of a guitar speaker over direct because depending on the type of music the speaker/amp combination (along with fingers!) is the sound, ie: heavy metal through a hi-watt/celestion stack. 'fx' through a speaker, especially those cheap little pedals, when mixed along with the guitar make it sound small and muffeled. this is when direct pays off...you have to be able to separate the instrument and effect channels. in the studio blending both direct and speaker can sometimes offer benefits as unlike live, everything you do, you actually hear! keyboards can be a nightmare as you never know which board is playing what. the best setup i worked with was a keyboard player who also did FOH. he had an elaborate multi key setup with an Fx rack as large as mine. he gave me 4 balanced line level feeds. stereo L/R keys, stereo L/R effects, and mixed everything perfectly himself, every solo, every line, every effect which came out full and wide without encroaching on the rest of the mix. he added SIZE to my mix at a time when everything else was fighting for space. again, you have to separate the instruments from the effects.

[boputnam]

Yesterday would have been Jerry's birthday, but the celebration of his musical contributions continues, around the states.

This years Jerry Day is this Sunday at the recently renamed Jerry Garcia Amphitheater in McClaren Park, of the Excelsior District San Francisco where Jerry grew up.

I thought I'd post some Links to the artists in the line-up, best as I can.

Headline is Grapefruit Ed - a rockin' bayarea Dead cover band. They've always been great, and this year are joined by Stu Allen on lead guitar. Stu does the same duty with Melvin Seals' JGB Band who carry-on the tradition from years touring with Jerry at the helm. There's a couple of tasty cuts on the website to sample. Check out Stu's technique - that boy can play. His vocals (Miracle) sound eerily like Jerry did on his good days... Sam Howard, Melvin's drummer will be here on Kit Stage Right, and join bay area luminaries Pat ("Shakey Zimmerman") Nevins on guitar and lead vocals, Sammy Johnston (Box Set) on B3 and keys, Chuck on bass, and Steve Ellis on Kit Stage Left. I'd expect other guests as the day developes...

Mid-day is Harmony Grits, an accomplished bluegrass emsemble that also covers some Dead tunes with finesse.

Kicking things off is Django Obscura - a fantastically talented newly incarnated Django Reinhardt arranged band. Great artists who've yet to assemble a website!

We'll post some pics (and hopefully some reviews...) of this years party on Monday, after the dust settles.