Ring Radiator Comparisons

[Dr.db]

Thanks a lot....

Efficiency seems to be at 105db for both of them, right ?

[ivica]

Here are my own measurements, including 30° off axis horizontal and vertical (this is where the 2403 shines).
It is quite similar to the measurements published by ratitifb (where did you find those?), especially when you consider unit to unit differences (even when new). According to these measurements, -10dB would be around 110dB/1w/1m...

Hi pos,

I am not sure whether 2405 or 2403 is better for home listening as too large vertical dispersion of 2403 (relative to 2405) can introduce comb effect owing to the reflection from the floor or ceiling.

Regards
Ivica

[pos]

Hi Ivica

Some directivity is probably a good thing, but I think the 2405 is way to extreem in the vertical plan: -15dB at 30° is way to much for neafiled or midfiled listening, and it already bears its own comb filtering and lobing on its own...
Beside that, what horn would match that directivity at the crossover point, and still maintain a >90° directivity in the horizontal plan?...

The 2404 is probably not directive enough, and I think the 2403 does hit a sweat stop, and will be a perfect match for most horns, crossosed over anywhere from 5kHz up...

[ivica]

Hi Ivica

Some directivity is probably a good thing, but I think the 2405 is way to extreem in the vertical plan: -15dB at 30° is way to much for near-filed or mid-filed listening, and it already bears its own comb filtering and lobing on its own...
Beside that, what horn would match that directivity at the crossover point, and still maintain a >90° directivity in the horizontal plan?...

The 2404 is probably not directive enough, and I think the 2403 does hit a sweat stop, and will be a perfect match for most horns, crossed over anywhere from 5kHz up...

Hi POS,

if +/- 15 deg vertical dispersion angle is acceptable, and if 2405/077 is located around 90cm from the floor , and about 250cm distance from the listening place that would correspond to 90cm+/-67cm (=23cm/157cm) height region, what seems to me quite acceptable for home listening region (in the vertical plane).
If about +/- 40 degs horizontal dispersion (around 9kHz) is the figure what can be expected from 2405, then I would not expect to have a large (if any) 2405 incompatibilities with the most of the CD or bi-radial horns.
I have 2311horn + 2308 lenses "coupled with" 2405 driver, (crossover around 9kHz) and I can not hear any anomalies moving either left-right or sitting-standing while listening.
While measuring (because of the drivers/horn geometry as VHF driver is about 20cm behind UHF) a large comb-filter effect can be seen, but I would expect the same would happen with the 2403/076 either.

Regards
Ivica

[audiomagnate]

I think the dispersion characteristics of the 2405 are close to ideal. My L300's put out a lovely image in a three person wide area of the listening couch, and great balanced sound throughout the room, especially in the area behind the couch. I also hear nothing strange happening when I stand up. This is NOT the case with any planars I've tried of course, or even conventional systems with dome tweeters, like my Cremonas.

[ivica]

I think the dispersion characteristics of the 2405 are close to ideal. My L300's put out a lovely image in a three person wide area of the listening couch, and great balanced sound throughout the room, especially in the area behind the couch. I also hear nothing strange happening when I stand up. This is NOT the case with any planars I've tried of course, or even conventional systems with dome tweeters, like my Cremonas.

Hi audiomagnate,

I can not agree more with your words, and want to say that 2307/2312/2311 with 2308 Lenses help too.

Some useful reading may be:

http://libinst.com/PublicArticles/Setup of WG Speakers.pdf


Regards
Ivica

[martin_wu99]

Here are my own measurements, including 30° off axis horizontal and vertical (this is where the 2403 shines).
It is quite similar to the measurements published by ratitifb (where did you find those?), especially when you consider unit to unit differences (even when new). According to these measurements, -10dB would be around 110dB/1w/1m...

2405H:
Attachment 61794

2403:
Attachment 61795

Pos,excellent job

[audiomagnate]

Hi audiomagnate,

I can not agree more with your words, and want to say that 2307/2312/2311 with 2308 Lenses help too.

Some useful reading may be:

http://libinst.com/PublicArticles/Setup of WG Speakers.pdf


Regards
Ivica

Broken link.

[hjames]

Broken link.

The link works if you copy paste the whole link WITH THE SPACES EMBEDDED

http://libinst.com/PublicArticles/Setup of WG Speakers.pdf

[martin_wu99]

Hi Ivica

Some directivity is probably a good thing, but I think the 2405 is way to extreem in the vertical plan: -15dB at 30° is way to much for neafiled or midfiled listening, and it already bears its own comb filtering and lobing on its own...
Beside that, what horn would match that directivity at the crossover point, and still maintain a >90° directivity in the horizontal plan?...

The 2404 is probably not directive enough, and I think the 2403 does hit a sweat stop, and will be a perfect match for most horns, crossosed over anywhere from 5kHz up...

I like the sound of 2404 in my 4628B.
But why is only 2405(077) in old 43xx series and not 2403(076)?2403(076) can only be seen in some big Westlake speakers

[ivica]

I like the sound of 2404 in my 4628B. But why is only 2405(077) in old 43xx series and not 2403(076)?2403(076) can only be seen in some big Westlake speakers

I believe that a "complex marketing reasons" is the main "issue" as 2405 has wider ( about 2kHz ~ 3kHz, but over 18kHz) frequency range then 2403 (as can be seen from the measurements).
Almost the same as the usage of 045 driver in DD66000 box.
045 is working "almost from 19kHz and up" ?????

regards
ivica

[martin_wu99]

I believe that a "complex marketing reasons" is the main "issue" as 2405 has wider ( about 2kHz ~ 3kHz, but over 18kHz) frequency range then 2403 (as can be seen from the measurements).
Almost the same as the usage of 045 driver in DD66000 box.
045 is working "almost from 19kHz and up" ?????

regards
ivica

You said 2405 has wider frequency range than 2403,means it is more hi-fi than 2403,but 2404 also has wider range as 2405.does 2403 cost really more expensively than 2405?since so many people think 2403 is better than 2405,why JBL only use 2405 in old 43XX series,there must be another reason,who knows?

best regards
Martin

[ivica]

You said 2405 has wider frequency range than 2403,means it is more hi-fi than 2403,but 2404 also has wider range as 2405.does 2403 cost really more expensively than 2405?since so many people think 2403 is better than 2405,why JBL only use 2405 in old 43XX series,there must be another reason,who knows?

best regards
Martin

Hi Martin,

As I have remembered 2405 is the only driver (from 240x family: 2402, 2403, 2404) reproducing over 20kHz .

regards
ivica

[martin_wu99]

Hi Martin,

As I have remembered 2405 is the only driver (from 240x family: 2402, 2403, 2404) reproducing over 20kHz .

regards
ivica

Hi ivica,
I think that is not the truth,
2404H:Frequency Response ( ± 3 dB): 4 kHz to 19 kHz,Usable Frequency Range ( - 10 dB): 3 kHz to 21.5 kHz
2405H:Frequency Response ( + 3 dB): 7 kHz to 20 kHz,Frequency Range ( - 10 dB): 6.5 kHz to 21.5 kHz
2402H:Frequency Response (±3 dB): 3 kHz to 15 kHz,Frequency Range (–10 dB): 2.5 kHz to 15 kHz
2403:105 dB SPL 5khz-21.5kHz @ 1watt 1 meter, freq range 5kHz-21kHz
It seems only 2402 can not reach 20khz
regards
Martin

[ivica]

Hi ivica,
I think that is not the truth,
2404H:Frequency Response ( ± 3 dB): 4 kHz to 19 kHz,Usable Frequency Range ( - 10 dB): 3 kHz to 21.5 kHz
2405H:Frequency Response ( + 3 dB): 7 kHz to 20 kHz,Frequency Range ( - 10 dB): 6.5 kHz to 21.5 kHz
2402H:Frequency Response (±3 dB): 3 kHz to 15 kHz,Frequency Range (–10 dB): 2.5 kHz to 15 kHz
2403:105 dB SPL 5khz-21.5kHz @ 1watt 1 meter, freq range 5kHz-21kHz
It seems only 2402 can not reach 20khz
regards
Martin

Hi Martin,

May be MY understanding about the upper frequency response of the driver is not correct, but looking at
the curves 2405 vs 2403
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...l=1#post360551

on MY OPINION 2405 has higher FR then 2403, for the others You haven given us.

regards
ivica