To Demo Line array properly one must go were a permanent installationOriginally Posted by LowPhreak
is. there are many places with these types of systems were I am. It's no problem.
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I understand your point, but I think BMWCCA was referring to other than Vertec systems.
OTOH, if I were offered, I wouldn't turn down the chance to hear a Vertec array sans a screaming crowd!
What is the price of the newly manufactured LE14 kits? If I recall they were over $400 each. I think that is about what I paid for my pair of Dorian S12 back in the day.
I have not been in the market for new speakers but what is the price range of current JBLs? All I see mentioned are 5 digit figures for a pair. I don't have that kind of money.
Is there a realistic consumer line these days?
had L25,L36,L40,L120,L300,AquariusIV(2),S1,4408 have L65,L100,L222,DorianS12,B380
Even though still listed on the JBL site, it appears the Performance series isn't actually available anywhere, (maybe some Synthesis dealers?), other than leftovers you might find... (I checked the links to their local "Synthesis" and HT dealers, and while listing other brands, they didn't list JBL...), and I don't think the new Studio L series are quite up to that standard, though they may well outshine whatever else is available in that price range...
The unfortunate fact is that Bose now owns the "hi-end" market for consumer HT, (discount cheap Panasonic, etc.), and since DVD players also play CD's, they are starting to own the stereo market for these owners, simply by default. They run full-page newspaper ads all the time out here, and I swear - I saw at leat 6 instances of Bose ads on TV yesterday alone!! How can JBL compete with a 6.1 system for under $1300: http://www.bose.com/controller?event..._inthebox#tabs
While personally I'll spend much more for the quality, I guarantee your average consumer is going to go for the Bose when they think of "high-end" - most of them have probaly only peripherally heard of JBL, while having Bose crammed into their head at every turn. And while you or I might (correctly) argue that even a bunch of JBL Control 1's and a JBL subwoofer would blow the Bose systems away, as far as I can tell, JBL has *zero* consumer marketing, so they're building no consumer awareness, and no base upon which to expand, ...
Face it - most of us here grew up with "audio" being the main thing - I myself still only have a 21" Sony CRT, but *thousands $$* tied up in basic stereo music reproduction, (I have to admit, though - I'm a musician). Most of the world probably considers us dinosaurs, but I prefer to think we're simply aware of what good sound reproduction sounds like, and what JBL's are capable of, and will continue to look for whatever we can to attain that goal, (someone please convince me to get rid of my extra inventory...).
John
When the Paragon was introduced it cost more than a brand new Chevy... today the Everest DD66000 costs more than a Chevy... so what's the beef.
Here is the current US line up... they range from disposable to quite costly.
http://www.jbl.com/home/products/cat...=US&Region=USA
Widget
"OTOH, if I were offered, I wouldn't turn down the chance to hear a Vertec array sans a screaming crowd!
With out the screaming crowd,you may just find out how bad those things really sound.
Course we all know opinions are like A_ _ _ _ _ _ S.
And that is just mine
Oldmics
When I started there were basically two types who had JBL's. One had money and the other would rather have sound than eat. I'll get in trouble for this but they were the ones that I believe at least one member believes were not worthy. It was a different time. Egg flats on the walls were not uncommon I could go on. Then there were the people who had to have the newest best etc. Every good audio store that I knew of had a used and consigned area. Trade ins were one way they got some customers into more expensive equipment. Want to trade a Rega in on a Linn. No problem. Mac or Bryston on levinson you bet. It was common for people to take certain pieces home to live with a few days before buying. And like I said there were the perfectly ugly systems that sounded sweet. Buying a self contained speaker system is really not that old of a concept. Probably started with AR# I can' say for sure but if speaker systems were self contained packages what would the market for the AR1W have been. Its probably in the last 30 or so years that it was discovered that with some work you could get some pretty lousy drivers to sound good together. When Harmon decided to start releasing speaker systems with the JBL name with drivers that didn't resemble anything that JBL PRO (once JBL) produced, that is when JBL became "one more speaker.".
As far as making parts available for the pro line, when the installed base of JBL Pro drivers can no longer be used, a very large market for pro speakers will open up. So JBL probably is looking at a couple of things. What are they making keeping these speakers running vs what they would make replacing them. They have most of this repair market, how much of the replacement market will they have. If they do it right they will have the new repair market also . If they screw up they miss this replacement market that they force and get locked out of the new repair market. You want to sell a new razor now and then, but it's important that the customer still ends up with a razor that only uses your blades. If they follow the computer printer model they will make trade deals or whatever it takes and there will be enough new patents that no one but them can legally make repair kits.
They were first playing with quad when I was selling audio. We were primarily a JBL component shop that pretty much thought MR. Lansing would be rolling over in his grave if he heard some of these packaged systems, Especially the LE series. we just explained that for the same money you could get a lot more sound in stereo. We didn't put it down. There wasn't a standard at the time and we did point that out but we just showed what it would cost to do things right with 2 more channels, and demonstrated different equipment. We sold $80.00 AR turntables, threw a Grado in with almost anything sold Dyna and D series JBL and people could easily see that the sound difference for the money was there. It was Klipsch running around bitching about a good 5 watt amp but if you are on a budget there is something to be said for efficiency
The L100 cost almost $300.00 per ea in 1973 and was just about where real JBL started and some people would debate that so it was dollars I think the 200 was $600 or $700 per ea but I'm less sure of that.
What's your point?
Remember that the big earthquake a number of years ago set off the sprinkler system at JBL's Northridge plant, ruinning tons of vintage parts, tooling and paperwork. The story goes that a number of dumpsters were filled with the water-soaked stuff and was destroyed.
I think JBL was happy to continue to supply these parts, as long as they lasted, to vintage customers. Unfortunatly they lost much of that potential.
Re-manufacturing these items was deemed economically undoable.
They decided that new technology and new products were where they needed to focus their efforts.
Their consumer stuff is of no intrest to me, but they DO still make some very good, high quality gear and are responsive to the pro audio world, in my opinion.
Tom
That's too bad. JBL Pro is as good as ever but Consumer is where the best parts are.
Anyone involved in this forum I suspect will have an aversion to plastic. Plastic is flimsy, metal is not therefore metal is good , and it lasts. I suspect that there is just too much plastic floating around in the current product line for our taste. To put it another way .... Bose do plastic JBL do not or rather didn't. Is this not really the nub of the matter. .......... or.......... conversely the old metal radial horns as we know rang like bells literally whereas the new abs etc horns do not.
In the same vein the Control 1 is a wonderful unit for the job for which it was intended and has been a continuing success for nearly 20 years. Mostly plastic.
I have no real answers lets face it they are massively successsful in just about every area of l/s manufacture you can imagine ( although they did not introduce the Rock speaker (I think ) although they should have).
I am in accord with the general tone of the thread and this is why : the last REALLY good L series.........
Round about 1984 the first Ti series arrived and as i recall the 18Ti , a tiny speaker even by our standards sold for about £650 a pair. Now these were so obviously well made that we had no trouble at all selling many pairs. Size for size they made the other brands sound frankly, stupid. Quality of all sorts shone through in spades and for that reason customers were very content to part with their hard earnds. In that era JBL had the radiance series and for the same money you could have had two pairs of the largest in the line.
But they were crap although they sort of had the signature sound , almost.
I still know three people who still REALLY enjoy those little 18's 20 plus years on. Aint seen a radiance in at least a decade (oops ).
I suspect that the problem is that the trickle down is not that apparent or at least not as much as it was in the past. Everest did not quite percolate did it...... not in vinyl wrap boxes at any rate.
IMHO JBL do have a gap and it is just this .. well made domestic versions of the TOTL models and not at $X... 000. No problem with a high price for a well made product just keep it in the ballpark. I,m sure that a great number of people would pay gladly for a GOOD distillation of the new flagship. This in turn would reinforce the overall brand etc etc
Happy NEW YEAR
I was just looking up at Giskards posts total and suddenly felt small and humble. One day .....
I shudder to think what my actual post total really is.I was just looking up at Giskards posts total and suddenly felt small and humble. One day .....
This is like the third or fourth version of this forum. I used to be more active years ago.
Here are a few clues as to what is happening.
1.) Globalization
2.) JBL is Big Business
3.) Competition is fierce
JBL's strategy allows for it's continued existance.
BTW - Revel is supposed to be the premiere Consumer loudspeaker line within Harman International.
Everest II was never supposed to happen.
I'm glad it did, it's a splendid design.
Ditto!
Widget
You're right ,I ramble, but if I could boil something down to a very concise point or two I doubt you would be much interested anyway.
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