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Thread: Speaker Placement a Key to Imaging

  1. #16
    Senior Member DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Oh, I've got a CD like that. I don't have a CD player, so I burned the tracks to my library and imported them on my iPod. From there, I've got a docking station with remote that I use to access those tracks and all the others on it.

  2. #17
    Senior Member eso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    And, apparently, another vote for the Poang listening chair! I'm up to four now, all in leather, with footstools.
    One of these days I'm going to spring for a proper Eames/Herman Miller lounger. Until then the Poang will do. I am due to replace the cushions again... Should probably get leather.

    eso
    30Hz Bass Horns/K151, Custom mid bass & midrange horns/Cogent DS 1428 & 1448 field coil drivers, Fostex T925a tweeters.

  3. #18
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eso View Post
    One of these days I'm going to spring for a proper Eames/Herman Miller lounger. Until then the Poang will do. I am due to replace the cushions again... Should probably get leather.

    eso
    I actually think the more backrest you have behind your ears, the more it messes with the reflections and sound from the speakers. I really like the Poang chair and the extra pillow on my leather covers lifts the head just a bit.

    Plus I buy them all used and leather is a bit easier to get past my wife as opposed to cloth cushions from someone else's house coming into ours! Here on the East Coast you can often find a chair and matching ottoman in flawless condition in leather for under $50. I've actually never paid even that much!
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."óGreg Timbers

  4. #19
    Senior Member jmpsmash's Avatar
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    Speaker placement, and try to be as symmetrical as you can. I have a 20 ft wide front wall (wall behind the speakers). The speakers are 50 in from the front wall, and 45 in from the side walls. And I get a very clear and sharp centrally placed vocal image right in the middle of the front wall. Some days I moved stuff around and didn't measure the placement, I will find that image shifted as much as 1 feet. Then I know I have to bring out the tape measure.

    Another thing is to treat the side walls and rear wall (behind the head), also making sure they are symmetrical.

  5. #20
    Senior Member jmpsmash's Avatar
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    In terms of placement of the speakers, aside from symmetry in the room, the main factor on placement to be handled next is the bass response. My room is tricky and there are only some places where the bass response look reasonable. You just have to find the right place where the room modes hurts the FR the least.

    I usually bust out the microphone and have REW generating full spectrum pink noise and then I move the speaker around some reasonable placements until the frequency response looks most reasonable. Even 2-3 inches here and there make a difference. I ended up finding a rather wide placement, almost placing the speakers and listening position in a equilateral triangle. Luckily with minor toe in the imaging was able to form sharply. This works well for me as I like orchestral music and a wider placement form a wide sound stage with very good imaging.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    Very nice rooms and systems!!

    With set-up no one uses set-up CD's?? Back in the day I used the JBL sessions, Shure Cartridge, High Fidelity and the classic Bob and Ray throws a Stereo Spectacular LP to help verify proper phase, cartridge set-up and tracking, frequency sweeps and so on.

    With modern set-up CD's they are much more useful they have tracks to verify imaging, subwoofer integration and many other helpful tracks. My favorite in the Delos Surround Set Up disk

    Anyone have any other suggestions?


    Rob


    https://www.amazon.com/Dolby-Surroun.../dp/B000000703
    Hi Rob,

    Back in the day l used the Shure test LP and the JBL sessions LP.
    Somewhere l have a Chesky test cd that is very good for stereo imaging and sound stage.

    I think small rooms (most domestic living rooms) are not kind to the bass response. As a result sometimes you are forced to sit on a room boundary or a position which is less than ideal for a reasonable stereo image. If you find this a problem try complementing the bass with a subwoofer. Three or more sources of bass in a room is better than two. This may need some experimentation.

  7. #22
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    Hi Rob,

    Back in the day l used the Shure test LP and the JBL sessions LP.
    Somewhere l have a Chesky test cd that is very good for stereo imaging and sound stage.

    I think small rooms (most domestic living rooms) are not kind to the bass response. As a result sometimes you are forced to sit on a room boundary or a position which is less than ideal for a reasonable stereo image. If you find this a problem try complementing the bass with a subwoofer. Three or more sources of bass in a room is better than two. This may need some experimentation.
    Hello Ian

    Rooms can be a real challenge. Especially if you can't go for best speaker placement and are restrained by furniture placement and room use. Not many of us can have a dedicated room so for most it's a compromise. Multiple bass sources do help.

    Not getting into the ability of have a listening seat at the optimum point in the room. We all have to do the best with what we have.

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  8. #23
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    On my situation itís the 9th home líve lived in. Out of those only four worked to any degree of satisfaction. Rooms are very unpredictable and they can be unforgiving. In the current home it needed a renovation and l had the autonomy to do what needed to be done. The treatment wasnít expensive other than the curtains but they were part of the reno. I installed all the treatments myself and bought the materials direct from a wholesaler. Dealing with a hifi shop or a studio treatment manufacturer is really expensive. The key was obtaining the right advice from an independent consultant.

    If anyone is interested the bass is more defined with no obvious boom. Itís not a dead sounding space. Iíve been watching the Netflix series Virgin River which has a good soundtrack and itís certainly a step as a listening experience.

  9. #24
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    I would like to have some "3D cork" placed along the angled ceiling. I know that hanging panels would probably work better, but would appear more obtrusive and could interfere with the surround speakers.

    I know that this gets very expensive, very quickly and when I corked a wall back in 1981, it smelled up the room for a dog's age.

    Also, while it would certainly deaden the reflection, I have no idea what it would do to the imaging.


  10. #25
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    Hi Todd,

    Depending on your approach it neednít be expensive.

    I looked at acoustic treatments sold by the pro audio industry and HIFi retail and was immediately put off. So l looked at local manufacturers of residential and architectural acoustic treatments. I then found an acoustic consultant to help me specify the room.

    A key point is not to second guess what you think your room needs. Itís a very deep rabbit hole that is best left to an expert. If you get it wrong itís a big problem. Donít be sold up the river by a retail salesman who really has no idea other than recycling his grandmother on eBay. You may not need diffusion. If you do you can make your own or buy it from a wholesaler.

    I need my room to cover several different needs including a living room, a stereo listening space, Atmos HT and Tele conferencing. It also need to look great.

    The fee for my acoustic report was under $1,000. That was an independent report not associated with any finished products. Full specifications and build plans were provided. This way l was able to incorporate the treatment during the renovation. A furnished room may have enough diffusion.

    https://www.mpacoustics.com.au/our-team

    https://materialised.com.au/product-...ows/acoustics/

    https://www.csrmartini.com.au/our-products/deco-series/

    https://www.csrmartini.com.au/wp-con...rb_0421_v1.pdf

    The rack and the console are for illustration only. But l intend to make them when time permits.The rug is real and yes it was expensive but l wanted a large 3.8 x 5 m wool blend rug. I had the curtains made by a local company. The decor is based on a Palm Springs / Coastal theme.
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  11. #26
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    The ceiling is ~465 sq ft. Even something this simple would run ~$1,250 just in materials, not including the labor to install. And we would probably want something nicer (=>$$$).

    https://www.amazon.com/Self-Adhesive...eEALw_wcB&th=1

  12. #27
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddalin View Post
    The ceiling is ~465 sq ft. Even something this simple would run ~$1,250 just in materials, not including the labor to install. And we would probably want something nicer (=>$$$).

    https://www.amazon.com/Self-Adhesive...eEALw_wcB&th=1
    I have never been terribly impressed with the performance of acoustic tiles.

    Perhaps you could consider something like this?

    Widget
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  13. #28
    Senior Member Odd's Avatar
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    Ian, who is selling this?
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddalin View Post
    The ceiling is ~465 sq ft. Even something this simple would run ~$1,250 just in materials, not including the labor to install. And we would probably want something nicer (=>$$$).

    https://www.amazon.com/Self-Adhesive...eEALw_wcB&th=1

    Hi Todd,

    I only have a 2.4 x 1.2 m panel on the ceiling.
    As l said try not second guess your requirements. Every room is different.

    But generally itís the first reflection points that are considered on the ceiling (not the entire ceiling) that is of interest. This is sometimes referred to as a cloud.

    I think my panels were about AUD$300 each.

    If you are interested a report can be done remotely. I used REW and provided a detailed set of sketches with room dimensions and photos. REW is a free ware download with comprehensive help guides. It has an RTA btw. I downloaded the latest version yesterday and itís loaded with tools for evaluation of room acoustics. Mics are available with calibration files at a reasonable price.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odd View Post
    Ian, who is selling this?
    Itís a local company here in Australia

    There are plans on www

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