Hi Rob,
Absolutely.
Hi Rob,
Absolutely.
Btw l’ve added links above to some interesting reference material. The article by Don is a great segway that unfolds in the other links.
It’s not a “l told you so post” but a balcony view of what are monitors and how are they really used?
Heck l might yet build up a pair of diy Century Classics for everyday use. No they won’t have titanium metal dome mids and tweeters. (I have a pair of 1200H gold woofers)
The contemporary blue baffle 43XX systems (if you can buy them)
The contemporary blue baffle 43XX systems (Barry’s pick)
I would have thought that they could have done better on the 4348. They needed to bring up the 2251 a bit and my modified Heil is a whole lot smoother than the horn/tweeter combo.Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie
If you go into the reference forum / systems there are a number of curves under the 4348 to assess. As l have said repeatedly the curves aren’t the whole story.
I do recall hearing the 4338 and the 4348 in Japan including the S9800. Other forum members have also heard them. In further discussions via Giskard it was understood from Greg Timbers that these contemporary blue baffle systems were targeted for the SE Asia region and their listening preferences. On the one hand they like thump tinkle tinkle version of legacy 43XX while the more conservative high end listeners of the region are aligned to a far more HiFi presentation (of the S9800, the M9500 and so on). Then there are the older stick in the mud listeners who are die hard JBL legacy systems followers. Nelson Pass has reiterated similar sentiments. That local area market is a melting pot for everything hifi and audio. Aspects of this situation can be seen in KenRick Sounds approach to re inventing the legacy systems. I have heard one of the re imagined 4345 systems and it’s different. Does that make it wrong? No not for everyone. This is the narrative l have been posting in 2024. And what’s done in the sound recording process is not a blue print for any of the consumer HiFi or Hi End markets either. (Refer to Don McRitchie’s article in the link l posted). Big HiFi brands like Kef, B&W and Tannoy to name a few are all out their beating their own drum too.
As l have said there is no one right loudspeaker system for everyone on the planet.
You know l have heard people at the HiFi club moan after going to a classical concert and saying that was disappointing it sounds better at home. It’s largely all about that on an individual level.
The thing to get your head around so you can make sense of it is that JBL have moved their goal posts in order to be commercially successful in consumer markets.
Traditionally JBL have used their pro credentials to sell into the consumer markets like the 4311. Referring to the Inside the Studio Monitor link above JBL illustrates efficiency versus LF bandwidth.
In there they refer to a 12 inch woofer having the same bandwidth as the equivalent 15 inch version only less output and a bit less efficient. That has changed in JBL’s approach to meeting the preferences of some specific regional and local area markets like Japan and SE Asia. The 15 inch woofers are more efficient in similar or somewhat smaller sized enclosures to the 4333. So they have given up some LF bandwidth for a more dynamic output. JBL mentions in the document that bandwidth to 30 hertz is often quite unnecessary and can impact on the overall dynamic performance of a system. So they slide the bandwidth marker up a bit in their contemporary 15 inch blue baffle systems in exchange for a more efficient and therefore dynamic system in a similar size enclosure.
JBL refer to the lowest key on a grand piano at about 30 hertz. On a bass guitar it’s about 41 hertz. The argument is how often do you need to reproduce 30 hertz? It actually makes a lot of sense.
JBL’s marketing department knows this so they up the ante to suit the preferences of these markets in the hope of generating sales. The devil is in the details on how JBL specify the woofers and tune the enclosure. But if you imported one of those systems it will confuse you like WTF. I have heard this said about the 4344mk11. The answer is bring on those 1500 subs. That then normalises your historical listening preferences.
Ian, Thanks for a pretty coherent and comprehensive look back at the 43xx series. I wish I could go back and time and by some of these audio works of art. John
Hi John,
Cool. You can always put together a clone of one of the 43Xx systems with some patience and some help.
Below l have outlined the JBL Pro 43XX series along side the Consumer systems with an overall timeline. You have to reason that the kinds of monitors offered later on with the 4200, 4400 and the LSR series were in response to changes in how the broadcast and recording industries evolved over time.
In some of the consumer system literature JBL make comparison to direct monitor counterparts as in a flat response. I have noted this on the document.
* There could be the odd typo as it was a detailed task to go through a number of catalogues and product brochures in the JBL Library.
There is much information in the JBL Library to enjoy and admire from so many contributors.
Don’s product and people profiles also shed a lot of light on developments that drove the business historically. I think JBL were lucky to have Don and Steve Schell write up the history of the business. The people who worked at JBL then were what made it so successful.
Cool comparison.
But why "L96?" and not the L112 which is the direct consumer version of the 4411, is it not?
". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers
Think you have a 4401 as well.
Rob
"I could be arguing in my spare time"
L112 and 4411 baffle layout
Hi BMWCCA,
Well I looked into your question. Please read the above post and acknowledge that you understand it instead of wasting my valuable time. None of this is like putting a rabbit out of a hat.
The L112 is not the consumer version of the 4411. It never was an it never will be.
1. The L112 mid driver is the LE5-9, the 4411 mid driver is the LE5-12
2. The L112 network is the N112 schematic, the 4411 network is the N3109
3. The L 112 baffle layout is different the the 4411 baffle layout.
The point of the chart was not about the pro and consumer counterparts. I only noticed that in reading the actual literature. This thread is not about consumer systems.
There are a number of newer 43XX systems like the 4349 that haven’t covered yet.
Edit refer to the attached PDF
Google search LE5 Matrix. its easy to find https://www.audioheritage.org/vbulle...The-LE5-Matrix
Last edited by Ian Mackenzie; 01-25-2024 at 02:09 AM. Reason: updated with a link ad PDF LE5Matrix
Not meaning to waste your valuable time, but you are wrong:
Picking nits? Then why does the L96 get a mention (albeit with a ? ), when in fact the only professional monitor to use the 044 tweeter is the 4411?
Mid-range differences seem to be edge-wound copper versus round copper, with the L112 getting the edge-wound. Same mid-range and tweeter are also used in the L96. In fact the JBL Studio Monitor charts do show the 4411 used the same LE5-9, as did the 4313 and 4313b.
If the requirement is for JBL to have made the comparison in its literature, then we'd also have to discount when Zilch referred to the L40t3 as the "secret equivalent to the 4408" when the tech sheets use a different part number for both networks.
I appreciate the time put in to this list/chart, but I'm still confused why if the L96 rates a "?" as the 4313b (?) equivalent, why the 4411/L112 isn't even a more obvious equivalent when they share the EXACT driver complement. I don't see any literature where the L96 is connected to the studio monitor heritage, either.
Inquiring minds just want to know!
Thanks.
". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers
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