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Thread: Combating H.F. Hearing Loss. ;)

  1. #1
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Combating H.F. Hearing Loss. ;)

    I am on a quest for loud UHF solution. Something that will keep up with a large format driver running hard. I need a 2405 on steroids. An ideal curve would be like a 2402-05H but I donít want to have to array four of those per side and deal with that sonic mess.

    I bought a couple of JBL / Selenium ST400 bullet tweeters just to see how they measure and while shopping I found these little jewels! At $70. USD I couldnít not buy one just to test drive. Itís made by Pyle, has a three inch voice coil and they state they go out to 25kHz. I guess it you donít mind about 80 dB down haha.

    Pictured for scale with itís little cousins, a 075-105, 2402-05H and a ST400.

    Barry.
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    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  2. #2
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Combating??? Looks like you on the opposite road!

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  3. #3
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    Combating??? Looks like you on the opposite road!

    Rob
    Heck yeah... listening to these bullets with a couple of watts input is bound to increase your hearing loss.


    Widget

  4. #4
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Haha for sure! The Pyle made my ears ring before I got it all the way out of the box.

    Measurements done at 1M on axis with 120mV drive. Hopefully zooming in you can see whats what.

    What I am really looking for is something with the frequency response of the 2402-05H in a horn driver. I have some BMS stuff coming.

    Barry.
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    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  5. #5
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Can you post that at twice the size? I can't make out much.


    Widget

  6. #6
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    I replaced it with as large as I could get the image to not fail on upload but I donít think itís any better.

    Here is just the NOS 2402-05H showing magnitude and phase.

    I should probably resize the screen grabs in the PC.

    What I am playing around with is not near field listening but not combat audio either. It's the age old problem of wanting a PA to really sparkle. I can EQ a 2451SL nearly flat on a 4338 horn with a single capacitor but literally smashing 28 dB out of the middle of its dynamic capacity to do so ruins whats to love about a large format driver and horn.

    When I saw that crazy Pyle bullet I just had to try one.

    Barry.
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    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  7. #7
    Senior Member DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Cool stuff. That Pyle gets all squiggly by 17khz. I'm 36 and have tested myself, nothing past 16khz. So to me, anything beyond that is for dogs and marketers.

  8. #8
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1audiohack View Post
    I replaced it with as large as I could get the image to not fail on upload but I donít think itís any better.

    What I am playing around with is not near field listening but not combat audio either. It's the age old problem of wanting a PA to really sparkle. I can EQ a 2451SL nearly flat on a 4338 horn with a single capacitor but literally smashing 28 dB out of the middle of its dynamic capacity to do so ruins whats to love about a large format driver and horn.

    When I saw that crazy Pyle bullet I just had to try one.

    Barry.

    Hello Barry

    That is a hell of a lot of attenuation. Have you tried parametric EQ?? I was able to get good results with 2453 on a PT waveguide. What does a raw on axis no network measurement look like on the 4338 horn?? I have never used them, closest would be my Array Horns.

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1audiohack View Post
    I replaced it with as large as I could get the image to not fail on upload but I donít think itís any better.
    Better on my computer... now it's barely legible, but still illegible on iOS. Can you lower the resolution but maintain the size? That will usually make the file size much smaller by removing unnecessary data.


    Widget

  10. #10
    Senior Member jbl4ever's Avatar
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    Barry have you checked into the BMS 4540 nd or the 2407

  11. #11
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Howdy JBL4;

    How are you sir?

    I have a pair of BMS 4590ís and 5530ís coming. I had a pair of 4590ís when they first came out and didnít quite love them. Having since learned a bit about better integration I am going to give them another shot.

    Hello Rob;

    I should have the 2451SL PWT and on 4338 horn measurements in the shop. I will get them over here tomorrow. I also did PEQ yes.

    Mr Widget I will get a better image and repost it.
    Thanks guys.
    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  12. #12
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    I am too late to edit so here is another attempt.

    In white is a NOS 2402-05H.
    Blue is a new JBL/Selenium ST400, the best of the two I have.
    Yellow is the monster Pyle bullet.
    All on axis at 1 meter driven at 120mV.

    I will post the BMS measurements when they arrive.

    Barry
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    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  13. #13
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Helo Rob;

    Here is one of my PWT tests of a 2450SL. The cursers show the magnitude of the hump from ≈800Hz to 20kHz. The test parameters in the top left are accurate. The mic system used is a random incident Larson Davis 172 dB mic with its 200V preamp and power supply system so the 150 dB SPL is real.

    The measurements with the 4338 horn must be on another computer.

    I will find them shortly. Hopefully in time to edit this post.
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  14. #14
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    I only have the very preliminary work on the 2451SL / 4338 here. The rest must be at the big shop.

    In this screen I have the 2451SL that I used in this 4438 work shown. Up high is the PWT measurement. The jagged line with some downward slant is the 2451 / 4338 with zero EQ. The relatively kinda sorta flat line is the same with a 3uF cap in series only.

    This was the very first work that I was doing some proof of concept work in my small garage with no clear path for a decent measurement but I didn't care for what I was looking for. I was just looking to see if I thought I really needed a UHF or not. Well, not if I want to give up about 20dB of dynamic headroom in the 2451, which I really do not.
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    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

  15. #15
    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    Angry

    Pic Quality Test

    What ever I save these as when uploaded they are turned onto JPEGs. This is as good as I can get apparently.

    This is the 2451SL /4338 with a ton of smoothing to tame the reflections corrupting the measurement for easy viewing with no cap on top moving from 20, 10, 4.5, to 3uF in case you can't read the text on screen.

    Barry.
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    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

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