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Thread: Paper-In-Oil Capacitors?? Wooden Horn?

  1. #1
    Senior Member DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Question Paper-In-Oil Capacitors?? Wooden Horn?

    Here's the listing for a custom set of UREI 811A's:
    https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/...pair-speakers/

    In the description the seller states:
    "
    ..Original Time Aligned networks re-capped with NOS Soviet era paper-in-oil capacitors all matched within 1% of factory specs..
    "

    But why? I've never heard anyone doing this before so if there are any benefits, someone please enlighten me.

    Also, what benefit would a fella get from swapping his plastic horn for a custom wooden one? Would those benefits be worth the effort and expense?

    Cheers,

    Derek

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    Derek,

    The fellow who makes those horns is a member here with the username eso. There are some thread discussions about these. The grey diffraction foam appears to be a recent addition/update to his wood horns for UREIs.

    Your crossovers also were rebuilt with closely matched film capacitors (KZK), and Mills resistors.

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    Senior Member DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Ah, that's pretty cool. I guess wood dampens more than plastic? I love the blue, coupled with the bright edges of the woofers the Ureis are fabulous looking.

    Oh, that's good to know. Man, you did everything on 'em. Much appreciated, I think I'll be buried next to them when I go.

  4. #4
    Senior Member eso's Avatar
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    The wood horns came about partially influenced by Yuichi Arai's old web page where he had made a wooden horn for very rare Gauss duplex drivers, and also the realization that I could fairly easily recreate the Urei B series duplex as both the PAS woofers and JBL 2425H drivers were cheap and plentiful. But finding NOS Urei horns in good shape is quite difficult.

    The 811As for sale were in rough shape when I found them, both needing recones and one with a broken horn. I too love the look of the classic Urei blue horns. But the wood horns also look very nice and I've now cloned every version from the original 604E & 604-8G, the 604-8K A series, the PAS/JBL B series and JBL C series. All of them are quite different.

    I'm also going to throw out there that the wood horns probably have better internal damping than the plastic.

    I started messing with the Soviet PIO caps at the recommendation of local Amp Wizard Cy Brenneman. They are quite nice. I've got them in my main Cogent system, and I've also just breadboarded out a TAD TN-1 network for some TAD TSM-1 monitors I'm putting together. The Urei 829 networks in those monitors were produced in Feb, 1981 and were rode hard and put away wet in the Hollywood studio for a long time: they were due for recapping and I happened to be sitting on a decent stock of these NOS Soviet PIO caps...

    As far as the charge coupling, there's a whole lot of discussion throughout this forum about it. One nice benefit is that it's possible to match your parts to get much closer to the design values with coupling by carefully matching your pairs.

    Thanks for looking!

    eso
    30Hz Bass Horns/K151, Custom mid bass & midrange horns/Cogent DS 1428 & 1448 field coil drivers, Fostex T925a tweeters.

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    Senior Member DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Oh, the speakers in the listing are yours? Pretty neat, I post links quite a bit but I've never had the seller drop by. By the way, what did you use to recreate the foam on the edges and inside of the horn? My fiancée wants to (and says she is going to...) redo the foam on the edge of my horns.

    Not related to the thread at all, but would you happen to know where I can get those woofer clamps like yours? My 813C's use the same ones, but one doesn't match. It's only just now starting to bug me.

    As for the forum not parsing(?) your paragraphs, there's a setting you have to configure within the "settings" tab. I believe Widget made a post covering it. If I was useful and could find it, I'd link it here.

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    Senior Member eso's Avatar
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    I found a thread discussing the issues with the forum and adjusted my settings but it hasn't helped. I'm trying a different browser right now.

    Materials in the wood horns are based on the old Japanese audiophile ideal of all natural materials. The horns are wood, the diffraction buffer on the horn mouth is wool felt, and the sides of the horns are natural chamois. Both the mouth treatment and the sides on the horn really improve clarity and imaging.

    The woofer clamps are the last of a quantity that I got from JBL Pro years ago while they were still producing in Northridge.

    eso

    It looks like switching to Chrome fixes the formatting...
    30Hz Bass Horns/K151, Custom mid bass & midrange horns/Cogent DS 1428 & 1448 field coil drivers, Fostex T925a tweeters.

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    Senior Member Ducatista47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eso View Post
    ...I've got them in my main Cogent system,...
    eso
    Now that must be impressive.
    Information is not Knowledge; Knowledge is not Wisdom
    Too many audiophiles listen with their eyes instead of their ears


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    Senior Member eso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducatista47 View Post
    Now that must be impressive.
    I'm pretty happy with it.



    eso
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    30Hz Bass Horns/K151, Custom mid bass & midrange horns/Cogent DS 1428 & 1448 field coil drivers, Fostex T925a tweeters.

  9. #9
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eso View Post
    I'm pretty happy with it.
    I see you are not really into vinyl... you should give it a try.


    Widget

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    That picture distorts my perception of size - at first glance it appears to be a huge room with cathedral size ceiling heights ... until I focus on the LP albums and amps. If those are indeed vinyl albums.

    Maybe they are jewel CD cases?

  11. #11
    Senior Member eso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmc8180 View Post
    That picture distorts my perception of size - at first glance it appears to be a huge room with cathedral size ceiling heights ... until I focus on the LP albums and amps. If those are indeed vinyl albums.

    Maybe they are jewel CD cases?
    It is not a huge room. The footprint is about 13' X 18' and the ceiling is a bit under 8'. Those are all LPs, except the CDs visible on the shelf to the left.

    The space is a loft I built in my garage. It was a great big waste of space. Now it's a cozy space for my HiFi and record collection.

    Something most people have a hard time visualizing is the built-in 30Hz bass horns. I added some EQ at the lower register so I've got prodigious bass down to 20Hz. It's really nice.

    eso
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    30Hz Bass Horns/K151, Custom mid bass & midrange horns/Cogent DS 1428 & 1448 field coil drivers, Fostex T925a tweeters.

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    That helps. If you had said those were CD cases, then you would need to be about 3 foot tall.

    Nice touch with the base horn, it's nice to start with a clean sheet of paper.

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    JBL blue rug. Set’s the scene.

    Horn loaded headphones? 1 milli watt at one metre. ……. Lol

  14. #14
    Senior Member eso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    JBL blue rug. Set’s the scene.

    Horn loaded headphones? 1 milli watt at one metre. ……. Lol
    Not quite, but close. I usually listen in the 80-85db range. with the mains sensitivity ~115db 1w/1m in am only using a few milliwatts most of the time.

    The mains are 3 way passive with WE 300 SET amps that Cy Brenneman tweaked a bit so they put out about 11W. The bass horns are only about 106-08db sensitivity and they have active low pass filters with 125W EL34 PP amps. It can all go cleanly far louder than anyone should be in the room with.

    eso
    30Hz Bass Horns/K151, Custom mid bass & midrange horns/Cogent DS 1428 & 1448 field coil drivers, Fostex T925a tweeters.

  15. #15
    Senior Member DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    JBL blue rug. Set’s the scene.
    It uh, "..really ties the room together."

    115dB sensitivity. Whoa. And here I thought anything over 100 was impressive. How did you build the horns? Response down to 20hz? What kind of bass driver feeds the horn?

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