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Thread: Adcom ACE-515 causing amp failures?

  1. #31
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    RE No idea if 95dB is a good number,

    Not low nor high. 95 db sensitivity is quite normal for this type of driver (2245H). You get very deep, well-behaved bass, not a "roller-coaster" one. The price for this is lower efficiency/sensitivity as usual, compared to many Sound Reinforcement woofers that are optimized for higher output, but at the expense of flat and deep bass.

    Nothing unusual here. You might have to manage your VLF DB SPL expectations and by the same token be careful about hearing loss. Btw there's a few threads here where members regret not having enough consideration for their own ears.

    Richard
    POWERED BY: QSC, Ashly, Tascam, Rolls Mosfet, NAD, and Crest Audio

  2. #32
    Senior Member DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmc8180 View Post
    Perhaps it's just me, but I'm a bit confused. I think first you should clearly define for yourself and others what your problem(s) are - I've seen several possibilities ... several blown right amp channels, lower than desired VLF output ... utility / home power problems perhaps? Maybe all? Define the problem first, you will get advice more relative to finding and fixing the problem.
    Well, I'm not an expert. Initially, all I knew is that I've lost several amplifiers and so it dawned on me that I probably have an underlying problem somewhere. At least I'm intuitive enough to deduce that. I could be the idiot who continues to buy new front tires every year but never asks why and so never understands the importance of wheel alignment. But I'm not smart enough to know what to look for or where to start. So tearing the amplifiers apart myself would net me the same result as a beauty queen who was asked to measure main bearing clearance on a small block Chevy. And to hell with taking one into the local repair shop, they want money just to identify what the problem is. Which probably won't tell me why the amplifier failed, just how it did.

    I think I did figure out what caused the issue- current flow was being choked by the Furman power conditioner. I haven't listened loud since I first took it out of the system. That initial listening session revealed that I was able to listen noticeably louder without seeing clip lights on the Crown PS-200. So I do suspect an issue with power delivery/availability. If I had a way to measure current flow, I would. Would be nice also to see what the voltage does as I listen. Need suggestions as to what diagnostic tools I can affordably acquire. Would be nice if they're easy to sell afterwards either. No use in having money sitting on and depreciating on a shelf.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    How about using more 2245’s
    Not enough space in the shit shack for that. The current setup is rather monstrous in the living room. We like it, but eventually a TV will make it's way in there so I can better enjoy concert Blu-Rays.

    Quote Originally Posted by RMC View Post
    RE No idea if 95dB is a good number,

    Not low nor high. 95 db sensitivity is quite normal for this type of driver (2245H). You get very deep, well-behaved bass, not a "roller-coaster" one. The price for this is lower efficiency/sensitivity as usual, compared to many Sound Reinforcement woofers that are optimized for higher output, but at the expense of flat and deep bass.

    Nothing unusual here. You might have to manage your VLF DB SPL expectations and by the same token be careful about hearing loss. Btw there's a few threads here where members regret not having enough consideration for their own ears.

    Richard
    The bass is excellent, the best and most musical I've ever heard. Guess that's why I can't get enough. Well, it plays at the level I like, but the amplifiers are running out of steam. If I take the 6dB bump out that's provided by the BX63A, that helps. But now I've grown fond of that low end so it seems my solution is to figure out what's going on with the power supply, overhaul if necessary and then upgrade the amplifiers. If only I wasn't poor, I'd have all this done in a month.

  3. #33
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    You have some work to do...it's part of this hobby...

    You indicated one channel is out - what does that mean? Are you sure it's only one channel or both? Reduced output or completely out? Did you actually confirm they are fried by sending known good signals through known good wiring to them? Did you check that the upstream devices and wiring are sending good signals to the amplifiers by feeding their outputs to known good functioning amplifier channels, and downstream wiring and speakers? Did you switch wiring to channels at various points to see if the problem moves with the wiring change or stays in the same channel? As far as tools needed for this level of diagnosing, get a multi test meter (probably $40 at Lowes) to check for consistent continuity through all your wires. Check both the low-level input wiring as well as the speaker wiring, also visually look for frayed wires, insulation, bad connectors. Do you have the same size speaker wiring for each channel? Is it about 12 gauge wire? Use that same meter to measure the impedances of each individual driver, if possible, to see if it is within spec.

    Errant DC voltage spikes, wiring shorts, etc. at the input jacks could damage one channel, I have seen it.

    Your house electrical power system not being able to supply enough current for your amplifiers to drive the speakers at the level you desire, would not have caused you to blow an amp channel. Assuming your amplifiers are capable of delivering the power being demanded, and you exceed the rating of your house power circuit, you will trip the house circuit breaker. If the amplifier isn't capable of delivering the power you desire, it will eventually clip or blow an internal amp fuse or amp circuit breaker. Are you driving one channel much harder than the other?

    It is possible your "power conditioner" malfunctioned and delivered under/overvoltage, however that would tend to trip internal amplifier protection or fry your amp's entire power supply system. This would shut down the entire amplifier, not just one channel as they share the same power supply circuitry (unless the amp requires separate power supplies and also has separate power supply circuitry per channel ... rare but some do). The same goes for under/over voltage of your house power or short duration power surges (voltage spikes) that can fry electronics. The probability is low that power supply anomalies would fry the same amp channel output several times without frying the entire amps power supply. Use your multi meter to check the voltage at your wall outlet at various times during the day and week to see the consistency of your utility voltage...similarly check the output of your "power conditioner".

    Don't start this process with a preconceived answer in your mind trying to find data to support your theory. Analyze the data you obtained to lead you to the next part of your system to check or to the most likely problem. If your analysis points towards say a preamp, take it to an electronics repair place for detailed checkout.

  4. #34
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    Can l suggest you both arrange a phone conversation for a two way (no pun intended) conversation.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    Can l suggest you both arrange a phone conversation for a two way (no pun intended) conversation.
    Thanks for that “suggestion”, but hopefully there was enough feedback provided in the thread to get the process started.

    It seemed to me the OP was struggling with how to proceed, as evidenced by little progress and nature of the follow up questions. Maybe that was a wrong assumption, and hope it wasn't viewed as a tedious response on some first step troubleshooting techniques.

    I hope you didn't feel the need to provide your “suggestion” because you were annoyed or that it was beneath the forum standards?

    Have a nice day/night down under

  6. #36
    Senior Member DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmc8180 View Post
    You have some work to do...it's part of this hobby...
    I'm finding this out the hard way. For the past twenty years it's been plug and play! Now that I'm semi serious it's akin to herpes in a can. As I was saying, if I had resources this would be over in a month. I'm getting there though.

    Quote Originally Posted by mmc8180 View Post
    You indicated one channel is out - what does that mean? Are you sure it's only one channel or both? Reduced output or completely out? Did you actually confirm they are fried by sending known good signals through known good wiring to them? Did you check that the upstream devices and wiring are sending good signals to the amplifiers by feeding their outputs to known good functioning amplifier channels, and downstream wiring and speakers? Did you switch wiring to channels at various points to see if the problem moves with the wiring change or stays in the same channel? As far as tools needed for this level of diagnosing, get a multi test meter (probably $40 at Lowes) to check for consistent continuity through all your wires. Check both the low-level input wiring as well as the speaker wiring, also visually look for frayed wires, insulation, bad connectors. Do you have the same size speaker wiring for each channel? Is it about 12 gauge wire? Use that same meter to measure the impedances of each individual driver, if possible, to see if it is within spec.
    Completely out. Left channel plays at the same level as before, but nothing from the right. I've heard it could just be bad solder or something somewhere, because when I'd jiggle the input wire in the socket 1/4 phone jack or XLR, didn't matter which I used, the channel would sometimes come back @ 100% for awhile (ten seconds to ten minutes) and then dip back out. Then with the latest failure there was static from the one channel. I believe both channels worked, but static followed the right channel. Was using it in bridged mode when that happened. For bridge mode on those, you use only the left input. With the Carver TFM 55x, the initial time it failed it was both channels, I think. A relay would click and then there was no sound. Sometimes it would click on again and then there'd be sound. Had it repaired, was a hefty endeavor. Worked fine for awhile, I put it on the shelf while I used my two Adcom GFA-555II's to vertically bi amp my XPL200's. Then in the quest for more SPL's and some months later (past the warranty period of the Carver) I put the Carver back into service horizontal bi amp style with a single K1 (Or did I do two?) manning the bottom end. Carver started clicking again, but this time just for the right channel. Eventually the right channel dicked off permanently and so back on the shelf it went.

    I do have a multimeter, a fluke! I did do a lot of switching. For the Crowns I tried using XLR input cables as they accept those or 1/4 phone jack wire. No change. The Adcom amplifiers only accept RCA, but those have been in the system for an eternity compared to everything else. Those bleepers are tanks by comparison and I beat the snot out of 'em when they were in service. Clip lights a flashin' on the regular. One of 'em is back in service on the main rig with no issues, and the other is out to pasture in the garage powering some Cornwalls.

    16ga wire when I ran the XPL200's. Now there is at least 12ga for the 813C's and 10ga for the 2245H's. This is how it was when the one amp started to crackle. The other one had to go as while it worked in bridge mode, it did not work in stereo. Signal presence lights did not illuminate. Funny, even in bridge mode only the left side's illuminated whereas the amp which worked in stereo, both of those illuminated. This is the amp which started to crackle.

    I've changed wiring quite a bit to accommodate the Ashly XR1000, Ashly XR2001 and then the BX63A. The only difference which I picked up and that could be significant is that I had to slightly overdrive the amps feeding the right side hi's on the XPL200's/813C's when using the Ashly stuff. But that didn't affect the Crowns as they were never used to run the highs (except when I first got them as I wanted to see what they sounded like up top- horrible, do not recommend).

    Quote Originally Posted by mmc8180 View Post
    Errant DC voltage spikes, wiring shorts, etc. at the input jacks could damage one channel, I have seen it.
    You know, based on me being able to jiggle the wires at the right input jack and get them to work, do you think that is the cause of death in their case?

    Quote Originally Posted by mmc8180 View Post
    Your house electrical power system not being able to supply enough current for your amplifiers to drive the speakers at the level you desire, would not have caused you to blow an amp channel. Assuming your amplifiers are capable of delivering the power being demanded, and you exceed the rating of your house power circuit, you will trip the house circuit breaker. If the amplifier isn't capable of delivering the power you desire, it will eventually clip or blow an internal amp fuse or amp circuit breaker. Are you driving one channel much harder than the other?
    Only slightly, and that was with the Ashly gear in place. But the channels driven harder weren't powered by any of the failed amps.

    Quote Originally Posted by mmc8180 View Post
    It is possible your "power conditioner" malfunctioned and delivered under/overvoltage, however that would tend to trip internal amplifier protection or fry your amp's entire power supply system. This would shut down the entire amplifier, not just one channel as they share the same power supply circuitry (unless the amp requires separate power supplies and also has separate power supply circuitry per channel ... rare but some do). The same goes for under/over voltage of your house power or short duration power surges (voltage spikes) that can fry electronics. The probability is low that power supply anomalies would fry the same amp channel output several times without frying the entire amps power supply. Use your multi meter to check the voltage at your wall outlet at various times during the day and week to see the consistency of your utility voltage...similarly check the output of your "power conditioner".
    This is good information. The conditioner used is/was a Furman PST-8D. Is it possible to have 120V but less than 15 amps available due to some restriction imposed by the conditioner? Without it, I have not seen the clip lights on the PS-200 and the Adcom's seem to be rockin' the 2245H's pretty loud before theirs start to flicker.

    Quote Originally Posted by mmc8180 View Post
    Don't start this process with a preconceived answer in your mind trying to find data to support your theory. Analyze the data you obtained to lead you to the next part of your system to check or to the most likely problem. If your analysis points towards say a preamp, take it to an electronics repair place for detailed checkout.
    I try to stay open-minded. Initially I posed the question for ideas to get me started. That led to investigating the Furman and now here we are. I appreciate the advice, doing what I can to follow it. The preamp was gone through when I first got it. The uh, right side was not working. They did a pretty big overhaul on it but it's been a fantastic little POS. It beat out everything else that I've tried. Currently it's title is being challenged by a Crown SL-1. But potential sonic differences aside, I havent noticed (nor have I listened for, yet..) any balance issues. There seems to be a lot less hiss from the speakers with the SL-1 in place though. Definetly a good preamp whether or not it beats the Adcom, I'll be keeping it. Why do people rave about the SL-2 while nothing is said about the SL-1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    Can l suggest you both arrange a phone conversation for a two way (no pun intended) conversation.
    Ha. Haha. Ha! Pretty good. I'm open for that.

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