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Thread: Adcom ACE-515 causing amp failures?

  1. #1
    Senior Member DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Question Adcom ACE-515 causing amp failures?

    Hello everyone,

    So it's occurred to me that I've lost five amplifiers on my rig; Carver TFM-55x (Same amp twice), two Crown K1's and one K2. Each time one went down, it's always been the right channel, but never a complete failure. Failures seem to happen within a few months, three tops. I am trying to figure out why, perhaps you folks have ideas? The only thing I can think of that could be causing it is an incompatibility with my Adcom ACE-515. That thing works as a power conditioner and a sequencer. You plug everything into it, flip their power switches on and from there all you do is flip the switch of the ACE to on or off. This turns everything on in sequence- preamp section first and then amplifier, reverse that when switching off. I did not find anything on the internet which stated modern amplifiers would have issues with the thing, but the only amps which haven't died while connected to it are my Adcom GFA-555II's. I've currently got a Crown PS-200 hooked to it and it's working fine so far, but it hasn't been in place for even a month yet. Also, for what it's worth, I've got the ACE plugged into a Furman power strip, forget which model but it also has filtered outlets and those are the ones I've plugged the ACE into.

    These amps be getting expensive. Need to find a cheaper hobby.

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    That would depend on the failure mode of the amplifiers. I'd look harder at issues with loads ( speakers / cables ) particularly if its the same output channel in each case. The output stages are usually the place where the hard work is going on so look for intermittent short circuits in the cabling or in the speakers. The only connection to the power sequencer I would envision is if it also acts as a speaker switcher which would put it in the output connections camp.

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    Moderator hjames's Avatar
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    I've had a pair of ACE-515 sequencers in use in my multichannel room for years. Got the first one circa 2010 or so when I had my biamped JBL 4341 monitors.
    I've had various HT receivers and processors in that room, since those days, and have run Adcom GFA-555 of various vintages, JBL/Urei pro amps of various power levels, and more recently, a couple of B&K power amps.
    Most of this stuff has been undisturbed for 8-10 years, and no failures.
    I use the sense cable(s) via a switched outlet on my preamp/processor, and 2 515s bring everything up from that trigger.
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    Senior Member Odd's Avatar
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    I have used the ACE-515 which I have converted to 230v for many years.

    No issues.
    43XX (2235-2123-2450-2405-CC 3155)5235-4412-4406-4401-L250-18Ti-L40-S109 Aquarius lV-C38 (030) 305P MkII

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    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    I've been a very happy user of the ACE-515 in two systems for decades. I don't really expect surge protection or power-conditioning from these ancient devices but I do value them for their sequencing which allows for one-button on/off of complicated bi-amp systems so my family feels comfortable in using them.

    One system uses the ACE-515 to trigger a JBL/Urei 6260 and an Emotiva XDA-2 Gen2 using the switched outlet from a Crown PSL-2 the start the process.

    The living room system uses the ACE-515 to trigger a Crown PL-400 and PL-200, as well as an Ashly XR1001 and another Emotiva XDA-2 Gen2, using the switched outlet from a Soundcraftsmen Pro-Control-Four.

    I've had no problem with either Adcom.
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

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    It could be a problem up stream in the signal path. Dc leakage from an output coupling electro cap or an intermittent fault like a signal cable or a connector. It’s also possible you have an intermittent fault in output connections like a low impedance fault to ground from a strand of a copper speaker wire. Power amps aren’t welders. They might survive for a while then it’s lights out.

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    Senior Member 1audiohack's Avatar
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    The only trouble I ever had with the AC215’s was welding the relays shut switching too much power with them. The employment of some Furman ASD120’s fixed that.

    I once had a line level electronic crossover that caused me some amplifier and HF driver problems. I found with a oscilloscope that it was oscillating at very high frequency beyond our hearing range and if I remember what the tech said is that it was “slew rate jamming” the amplifier output stages.

    They cost more to fix than you can often buy them for but if your K1’s are physically in good shape and you decide to sell them off please let me know. I am going to up the power of the high frequency end of my patio system and K1’s would be a good fit there.

    Barry.
    If we knew what the hell we were doing, we wouldn't call it research would we.

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    Senior Member DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Thank you for the responses, fellas!

    Now, it might be too early but perhaps the Furman wasn't doing me any favors. I fired up the system with just the ACE-515 plugged into the wall. Well, I was jamming away and while I was getting used to seeing clip lights on the PS-200, I didn't see them once last night. Now, the clip lights flickered on the Adcom GFA-555II, but at considerably higher levels than before. Perhaps the Furman was limiting current somehow?

    @ Barry, those K1's could be all yours. I was getting ready to take pictures of them and pop 'em on eBay. They both have issues on the right (Channel 2) channel though. I could send you pictures, but the faces are in good shape. There's what looks to be a chalk mark on both though, I couldn't get it off. That ADS 120 looks like just the ticket. But for the price, I think I'd go back to manual power switch flippage. Least for the time being... "It's the wave of the future, dude. 100% electronic stimulation." "Oh, I still jerk off manually."

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    For power protection with other benefits, I use industrial grade isolation transformers rated for the intended loads. Not only are they inherently safe (will not pass short duration voltage spikes), but they also provide really good noise filtering as well. Built like a tank, no moving parts and exceptionably reliable... And can be massively heavy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    It could be a problem up stream in the signal path. Dc leakage from an output coupling electro cap or an intermittent fault like a signal cable or a connector. It’s also possible you have an intermittent fault in output connections like a low impedance fault to ground from a strand of a copper speaker wire. Power amps aren’t welders. They might survive for a while then it’s lights out.
    +1

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    Senior Member DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmc8180 View Post
    For power protection with other benefits, I use industrial grade isolation transformers rated for the intended loads. Not only are they inherently safe (will not pass short duration voltage spikes), but they also provide really good noise filtering as well. Built like a tank, no moving parts and exceptionably reliable... And can be massively heavy
    Hmm, how do I integrate one of those? Would I only need one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    Hmm, how do I integrate one of those? Would I only need one?
    Ok, I'll try to briefly summarize the subject however you will want to do more research if you are truly serious about heading down this path. These isolation devices are typically used in laboratories, hospitals, manufacturing plants and on anything sensitive, electronic and computer controlled. Usually, you only need to plug the transformer into the wall and your device into the transformer (if the transformer is supplied with a proper power cord and outlet receptacle). The number needed depends on the load - they are rated at 100 VA, 150 VA, 300 VA, 500VA, 1KVA, 2.5KVA, 5 KVA. 7.5 KVA are typical sizes, and rated for 120 or 220 VAC. To calculate size needed, take the amperes times the voltage needed. For example, an amplifier rated at 15 amps and 120 volts would need a transformer of 1800 VA or 1.8 KVA. Digital devices normally need a fraction of an amp - say its rated at 11 watts (or VA), that equates to 11/120 = .092 amp.Ideally you want to separate digital devices from all others and perhaps grouped on different isolation transformers. This to isolate noise from transferring and possibly effecting the others (digital devices can be noisy). Digital devices should also be separated on smaller, different isolation transformers. Normally digital devices can fit on one main transformer (with separate sub transformers for each digital device), and everything else on another (or others) depending on load required. On a small system perhaps, you could get away with one main isolation transformer, and separate small transformers, one for each digital device. If you aren't concerned with noise (only protection) and under a budget, fit as many devices as possible on the fewest transformers. You can start out with a couple and add more if noise is found to be a problem. It also is rare that all devices will simultaneously need their max current, so judge sizes needed accordingly, and considering your budget.If you are rich and a purest, you would also want multiple power circuits, perhaps one for each large transformer (up to the circuit rating normally 20 amps).Look at transformer ratings for isolation capability, see that they have a faraday shield between the windings and look for capacitance rating of .0005pF or less between the windings. Many Topaz / Square D / MGE models are good, but the company is defunct now. They can be found on used markets. Smaller isolation transformers (for digital devices) are made by Hammond Mfg. These devices do not provide voltage regulation, or sequenced turn on capability. Voltage regulation may be needed depending on the voltage stability of your utility provider. Again, the complexity of your system will depend on the quality of your power utility, your bank account and how anal you are ... Usually best to start out with a few and add if found needed. I tried to separate the above into paragraphs to be more readable, but it wouldn't let me... or I don't know how...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmc8180 View Post
    ...I tried to separate the above into paragraphs to be more readable, but it wouldn't let me... or I don't know how...
    Post 26 of this thread, follow the instructions.
    https://www.audioheritage.org/vbulle...ad-error/page2

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    Senior Member DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmc8180 View Post
    ...If you are rich and a purest...
    I am one but not the other, and the one I am not prevents me from enjoying the one I am. There's so much to everything! I think I should just learn how to be satisfied with levels of 110 dB or less, would certainly save me a lot of dough and frustration. I can't afford to be the audiophile I'd like to be.. It amazes me how affordable "decent" or good sound is and then how expensive "better" or optimal sound is. Why can't I be satisfied with some 115wpc Denon receiver and some Best Buy floor standers like everyone else I know? LoL

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    Cool

    Getting back your the initial question on the power amp failures if you can validate it was the right channel then the real issue can to determined. If you have a friend or fellow forum member who can assist you with a fresh set of eyes l think your will start to get traction of where the problem is. It could be a channel balance problem or a speaker wiring problem causing the failures.

    On power conditioning it depends on a number of factors such as where you live? Are you near light industry or are air conditioning systems used in quantities in your neighbourhood? It’s a technical topic. People like PS Audio have been making power supply conditions for years. Do you need a power conditioner? It depends. Do you need a power conditioner to make something sound good or better. No l don’t think so. But mechanical noise and electrical interference can be a problem with older audio equipment.

    Modern consumer electronics can cope more effectively with interference. Linear power supplies used in older equipment are rapidly becoming a thing of the past. They are by design bad for dealing with mains power problems. Things like power factor correction that can cause mechanical noise from a transformer. Toroidal transformers are notorious for being noisy and they pass interference like switching noise more efficiently than an iron core transformer. New domestic refrigerators don’t cause the same interference and switching noise like old refrigerators and they are now affordable.

    Modern consumer audio equipment in recent times with switch mode power supplies and digital amplifiers despite the voodoo are better at dealing with external interference. CE and other standards are forcing improvements in technology and design. Early versions of switch mode power supplies weren’t so good. Recent advances in standards and technology means by design consumer equipment is getting much better, quieter and less expensive. Companies like Nad are at the forefront on quality product at sensible prices.

    It’s now debatable that boutique garage companies have the edge on premium consumer entertainment sound. What costs five to ten times more doesn’t sound ten times better. Things like sound bars are getting better. Much better because more people are living in apartments. You can now by an ATMOS Soundbar.

    Where you have the advantage here is in obtaining big loudspeaker sound at diy prices if that’s what you want.

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