Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 57

Thread: Heather's new L200 JBL Dynamics Project

  1. #1
    Moderator hjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    NoVA - DC 'burbs
    Posts
    8,542

    Heather's new L200 JBL Dynamics Project

    Just a starting post for this JBL thread. Ages ago, circa 2006, thanks to @BigYank, I won a pair of 4320 2-ways.
    https://www.audioheritage.org/vbulle...l=1#post100289
    I moved into some L200B cabinets, grew them into 3 ways, switched from the exponential horns to some JohnW smith-horns,
    and then moved them on around 2016. Sold them off.

    The sale made sense at the time, but I've since decided I liked that sound and want another pair. Well, with some updates.
    Folks have been talking about updating older designs with the 2016nd 15" woofer, and - others have said the L200 Cab design is old,
    not the best, and it would be better if the woofer was higher from the floor.
    Heck, in 2011 Nelson Pass posted a design for a "Nelson Pass styled L300 Summit Crossover" which he thought was a good compromise
    to update the famous JBL 3-ways (which many of us tried to update our L200s into in one way or another).
    Other folks are saying passive crossover designs are badly dated and active crossover and biamp or triamped design is really the way to go.

    Darned if I know which is best, or what I will prefer here.
    But to facilitate my 2022 JBL Project, I've been collecting parts. Found a pair of JBL 2216ND Woofer (for JBL M2) via Speaker Exchange in FLA.
    Name:  2216nd_8605.jpg
Views: 1173
Size:  105.8 KB


    While I was throwing out ideas on the project on AK, Jeff PMed me and said he had a pair of horns like mine that he wasn't using - make an offer (!).
    We settled on a fair price, he packed them "bomb-proof" for the trip to me in VA, and, a nice pair of mahogany JohnW Smith horns are now here in VA.
    Funniest thing is JohnW made them for Dhar here in the DC area, then Dhar sold them to Jeff in Texas! Now from Texas back to DC area. Such a round trip!

    Name:  JBL-2445j-2328-WalnutHorn_8697.jpg
Views: 1146
Size:  89.4 KB
    While that was going on, I found a pair of 2445j drivers and made a fair offer on eBay for them & also got the 2328 Horn adapters off Reverb.

    Subwoof and others said they could sound harsh, and I'd likely prefer a newer pair of coated diaphragms, so I got the JBL D8R2452-SL Diaphragms,
    again, via Speaker Exchange.

    Did my first time large format diaphragm install, used a tone generator to center them as I reassembled the drivers, then bolted them to the Smith Horns.
    Name:  2445j-TestTone_8711.jpg
Views: 1117
Size:  149.6 KB

    I still have a pair of Heathkit branded Altec Valencias (my LAST project) in the living room, for sale, so I tied some LPads across to the 2446 drivers,
    did a cheesy quick & dirty hookup in parallel to the Valencias, turned down their horns, and have them running now.
    Def not perfect, but I can tell they work, and that the new diaphragms are a great improvement over the original 34 year old TI dias.
    I got a pair of the "Nelson Pass style L300 Summit crossovers" online. I'm sure they're not the best caps,
    but they are built on a nice etched PC board, which saves me a lot of time - so all I need are the 2 LPads for Mids and Highs,
    plus a pair of 5-way jacks for inputs, and 3 pair of jacks for the outputs (Lo, Mid, hi).
    So, it makes sense to build the crossovers in external cabinets that I can put on top of the woofer cabinets, just under the horns.
    If I decide to go active later, I can sell the 3 ways easier in a nice box than just as wired parts removed from the main cabinet.
    Name:  Box-crossover-LPads_8803.jpg
Views: 1120
Size:  156.7 KB

    So, that was this week's project. I'm the first to admit I am not a cabinetmaker or any kind of woodworker, but I do the best I can.
    Got some 1x3 poplar planks from Home Depot - figured a good dimension would be 10 x 16 - so it could be under the horn, LPads on front,
    and it could function as a nice support for the smith horn. Cut lumber, mocked it up, and after I glued them up, Checked them under the horn.


    I do have a pair of nearly new Great Heil subwoofer, that could easily sit on top of the smith horns and still be at ear level.
    Name:  Heath-Horns-Heil-Heights_8782.jpg
Views: 1127
Size:  204.2 KB
    Last edited by hjames; 12-05-2023 at 12:47 PM.
    2ch: WiiM Pro; Topping E30 II DAC; Oppo, Acurus RL-11, Acurus A200, JBL Dynamics Project - Offline: L212-TwinStack, VonSchweikert VR-4
    7: TIVO, Oppo BDP103D, B&K, 2pr UREI 809A, TF600, JBL B460

  2. #2
    Moderator hjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    NoVA - DC 'burbs
    Posts
    8,542
    Once I got the mocked up crossover boxes in place, I realized the adapter lip for the horn to adapter transition
    would limit the front-to-back position of the driver on top of the main cabinet.
    (The 2445j drivers came with a beefy metal mount that supports them - and if I use 18" x 18" granite tiles
    as cabinet toppers, that support bracket needs to sit on top of it,
    and I didn't want to have to slide it to the back edge of the granite topper.

    Couldn't see any way around it, so I knocked down the boxes, recut the side panels, and just glued it back together as a 7 x 16 box.
    I'll let it dry overnight, then trim the box bottom with a router (got a roller-bearing bit on the way from Amazon sometime today).
    Not sure if I'll need a top, but I do have some more of the wood panelling I can is I do.
    I've got some rubber pads I stripped from some cork isolation blocks I've had, and I'll glue them to the top and bottom of the crossover boxes
    just to protect the mahogany Smith horns

    Once the boxes are built, I can mount the jacks and LPads and solder them all together. Later this weekend, as time allows.

    The main design for the woofer cabinets is 5 cu ft. boxes of Baltic Birch. More details on that, and the gentlemen building them for me in a later post.
    (Like I say, I do the best I can but I am no woodworker nor cabinetmaker!)
    I do have some tools, and a shopmate folding workbench I rigged up with interchangeable benchtops I made for a Table Saw, and a mitre saw I bought years back.
    But - we have a small house, no garage of basement workshop - so when I use the power tools, I set up in the backyard under a magnolia tree ...

    Name:  MitreSaw-setup_8825.jpg
Views: 1018
Size:  210.3 KBName:  recut side panels on Horn_8828.jpg
Views: 1016
Size:  94.4 KBName:  crossover-boxes-reduced_8829.jpg
Views: 1024
Size:  140.1 KB
    The smaller box mockup - design and visual look.

    Name:  cbox-mockup_8836.jpg
Views: 1013
Size:  116.8 KBName:  cbox-mockup_8838.jpg
Views: 1023
Size:  127.0 KB
    2ch: WiiM Pro; Topping E30 II DAC; Oppo, Acurus RL-11, Acurus A200, JBL Dynamics Project - Offline: L212-TwinStack, VonSchweikert VR-4
    7: TIVO, Oppo BDP103D, B&K, 2pr UREI 809A, TF600, JBL B460

  3. #3
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Rocinante
    Posts
    8,122
    Hello Heather

    Nice to see a new DIY project on the forum. Active vs passive that's a hard question considering you can get great results from both. Doing your own custom cabinets is certainly a much better idea than trying to re-purpose a pair of L200 cabinets. In 5 cubic ft with 2216nd's you certainly have a "window" and some flexibility to tune the boxes depending on what you want to do and what works best in your room.

    I still have my HEIL's can't say I ever thought to use them in a large 3 way. That could be a lot of fun. A supper 077 Slot with built in adjustable rear ambiance.

    Keep us posted!

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  4. #4
    Senior Member spkrman57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    2,018

    Nice project Heather!

    I need to get my 1501Fe, 2206J and 2445/Be on 500Hz round Edgarhorn. Biamped between 1501Fe and 2206J so I can use Single ended tube amps on top and SS on LF.

    Your system is a inspiration for me.

    Thanks, Ron
    JBL Pro for home use!

  5. #5
    Member macsic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    62
    Hello,
    I tried to integrate the Heils which I had taken on my ESS AMT-1A Monitor during the reconstruction of their crossovers, tests with a system using 2450/2397, Altecs 817a, I really like the Heils but I am returned to 2405 after a few months of testing of all kinds, this choice is not as obvious as I might have thought. The reason for this return is better overall integration for efficiency, if you adjust for a specific volume the Heil has a higher holographic side to the 2405 that's really their strength and magic.
    Your experience could really be different with the very enviable 2216nd which have an efficiency closer to the Heil but still quite different from the 2445, experience that I do not have.
    I would be surprised if you were disappointed.
    Have fun.
    Music is emotion.

  6. #6
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    9,699
    Very, very cool… thanks for sharing your project with us, keep it coming!


    Widget

  7. #7
    Moderator hjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    NoVA - DC 'burbs
    Posts
    8,542
    Put the bearing router bit in a nearly unused router, set up the shopmate out back at 9AM, and trimmed the cabinet bottoms.
    Knocked the bench down, touched up the cabinet stain in a few places, then took Emma out for Dim Sum at 11:30
    (Emma's choice, once a month at Mark's Duck House near 7 Corners).

    Final mockup complete, parts fit checks out.
    Now all that remains is the final assembly and solder work.

    Name:  cboxes-final-Mockup_8855.jpg
Views: 904
Size:  136.1 KB
    2ch: WiiM Pro; Topping E30 II DAC; Oppo, Acurus RL-11, Acurus A200, JBL Dynamics Project - Offline: L212-TwinStack, VonSchweikert VR-4
    7: TIVO, Oppo BDP103D, B&K, 2pr UREI 809A, TF600, JBL B460

  8. #8
    Senior Member DerekTheGreat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Warren, MI
    Posts
    576
    Really cool, and nice woodwork. Much better than I'll ever be able to muster, that's for sure. I really like the look of your crossover boxes.

  9. #9
    Moderator hjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    NoVA - DC 'burbs
    Posts
    8,542
    I got the 3-way crossover boxes completed late yesterday. Hooked them up this morning - Woofer out feeding the main in of the Heath/Valencias,
    with the Valencia treble turned down, mids tied to the 2445j/Mahogany horns, and decided, what the heck - so I pulled out the Great Heils
    and hooked them up as tweeters.
    I figure the caps need to be broken in, and so do the new diaphragms in the horns - but its actually not bad!

    I'm actually tempted to gut the Heath cabinets, flip the front panel to lift the woofer mount,
    and install the 2216nd in that box ...
    just to move things along ...
    but I probably won't go that route.

    Name:  cboxes-completed_8883.jpg
Views: 915
Size:  188.6 KB

    Name:  3way-Heaths-Horns-Heils_8893.jpg
Views: 918
Size:  174.9 KB
    2ch: WiiM Pro; Topping E30 II DAC; Oppo, Acurus RL-11, Acurus A200, JBL Dynamics Project - Offline: L212-TwinStack, VonSchweikert VR-4
    7: TIVO, Oppo BDP103D, B&K, 2pr UREI 809A, TF600, JBL B460

  10. #10
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    9,699
    I imagine the horns need to be padded down quite a bit to mesh with the air motion transformers. Interesting combination of bits and bobs.

    I think the 2216Nds deserve a dedicated box... they are too good to get "hand me down" cabinets.


    Widget

  11. #11
    Moderator hjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    NoVA - DC 'burbs
    Posts
    8,542
    Custom woofer cabinets for the 2216nds - that's the plan!
    A couple of local friends have offered to make some 5 cu Ft cabinets to handle that issue.
    I'm just overly enthused about the success so far!

    (and besides, L200 cabinets have gotten a lot more rare, or in demand, than when I did my last set of builds 15 years back!)


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I imagine the horns need to be padded down quite a bit to mesh with the air motion transformers. Interesting combination of bits and bobs.

    I think the 2216Nds deserve a dedicated box... they are too good to get "hand me down" cabinets.


    Widget
    2ch: WiiM Pro; Topping E30 II DAC; Oppo, Acurus RL-11, Acurus A200, JBL Dynamics Project - Offline: L212-TwinStack, VonSchweikert VR-4
    7: TIVO, Oppo BDP103D, B&K, 2pr UREI 809A, TF600, JBL B460

  12. #12
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    5,736

  13. #13
    Moderator hjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    NoVA - DC 'burbs
    Posts
    8,542
    Although I have been enjoying the stacked L212s with the improved quality of the Acurus A200 (and matched RL11 preamp), I have not forgotten the project - tho its like more like a late 2023 or 2024 build. And - I've been offered a pair of Altec Valencias Cabinets to use as the bass boxes for the project - waiting to hear if they are the A or the B series ...
    If they are like my Heath "Valencias", those are nicely robust cabinets. I can cover the internal horn slot easily enough to use them as Bass boxes.

    So, I've got a Q - Altec Valencia dimensions are 27.5"W x 30"H x 19.5"D - multiplied out that gives me 16,087.5 cu inches-
    which, divided by 1728 cu Inches, gives me 9.32 cu Ft - but ... that can't be right - what am I doing wrong here?
    Just trying to get an idea of the actual volume of those boxes.
    2ch: WiiM Pro; Topping E30 II DAC; Oppo, Acurus RL-11, Acurus A200, JBL Dynamics Project - Offline: L212-TwinStack, VonSchweikert VR-4
    7: TIVO, Oppo BDP103D, B&K, 2pr UREI 809A, TF600, JBL B460

  14. #14
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    9,699
    Your math is right, but are those internal or external dimensions?


    Widget

  15. #15
    Moderator hjames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    NoVA - DC 'burbs
    Posts
    8,542
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Your math is right, but are those internal or external dimensions?


    Widget
    Yep, external dimensions ...
    So - 9.x Cu Ft external may be ... 4 or 5 cu ft internal?
    That should be enough for a 2216ND to breath well, do you think?
    2ch: WiiM Pro; Topping E30 II DAC; Oppo, Acurus RL-11, Acurus A200, JBL Dynamics Project - Offline: L212-TwinStack, VonSchweikert VR-4
    7: TIVO, Oppo BDP103D, B&K, 2pr UREI 809A, TF600, JBL B460

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. A horn throat distortion question, and eficiency Vs dynamics?
    By mixsit in forum Lansing Product General Information
    Replies: 62
    Last Post: 10-24-2018, 10:06 AM
  2. L200 Project, continued
    By roads31 in forum Lansing Product Technical Help
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 02-12-2013, 08:04 PM
  3. L200 Project.....any ideas?
    By roads31 in forum Lansing Product Technical Help
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 08-21-2012, 10:48 AM
  4. Replies: 11
    Last Post: 10-30-2010, 11:40 AM
  5. HBD Heather
    By Hofmannhp in forum Forum Announcements
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 02-27-2008, 07:44 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •