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Thread: JBL 4345 3 -Way Version with JBL 2447

  1. #1
    Junior Member speakermaker's Avatar
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    JBL 4345 3 -Way Version with JBL 2447

    I am actually build a 4345 Clone. I will use the 2447 H over 1000Hz ,without a super tweeter. I am looking for a 1000 -1200 Hz crossover build
    with equalisation for the 2447H . Who can help?
    Viele Grüße

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    I think l have that driver let me check. Yes l do and all the other drivers in my driver storeroom .

    I do passive crossover designs off line for interested people.

    If you send me an email in my signature I can go through it with you.

    Ian

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    Junior Member speakermaker's Avatar
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    The special 3-way version of the 4345 works very good. The 2405 is not in work. A 2447 H works from 1000Hz - 17000Hz ,with a short horn.
    The 2245H is activ, the 2123H + 2447H passiv with a Ian Mackenzie crossover. Many thanks to Ian.
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  4. #4
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Very nice!

    Are you using the JBL 2311 horns? You really should put a pair of lenses on these horns.

    Beautiful Studer/Revox!


    Widget

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    Junior Member speakermaker's Avatar
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    It is a shortened 2309,with 1,5" connection .

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    Great to see a project come to fruition.

    I am a firm believer in realising variations of these famous 43XX monitors for system owners. Being able to put your own signature on the subjective results is about what makes your own ears happy. There are subtle differences in the mid cone and compression drivers. Mixing the older and newer components can bring about individualised “custom” presentations. Each to his own.

    Linear X Leap software enables realistic simulations using JBL specifications and even more accurate predictions of system performance with uploaded REW measurements of custom configurations. This takes the guess work out of inserting different diaphragms and drivers in these more complex multi way system. I can provide user defined driver adjustments with RC element values in 1.00 db steps for EQ and level matching. That way the user can accurately determine his / her preferences in his / her room.

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    Leap AFAIK has been unavailable for a couple of years at least. Do you know of a source now?

  8. #8
    Heather [Senor member] hjames's Avatar
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    LEAP - not available anymore!

    https://www.physical-lab.com/product...-software/leap

    https://www.diyaudio.com/community/t...vaible.353669/
    LinearX is no more, the owner died a few years ago and his wife shut the company down, so no, you can't buy LEAP any more, and even if you find the software for free, it won't help as you'd need the USB dongle for it to run. AFAIK no-one has reverse engineered the dongle, as it was a custom piece developed in house, not from one of the generic dongle companies. The market is just too small to justify the effort. The day my LEAP 5 dongle dies will be a very sad day indeed.......

    Leap 4.6 IS available here as a RAR archive - but it seems to be an olderWindows version (win XP?).
    I've got a MAC, so I can't vouch for it.
    LinearX LEAP | Download [1.7 MB] - eSoftnerhttps://www.esoftner.com › all-software › linearx-leap-...

    I also found this thread about hacking Leap to run in Win 10
    https://www.diyaudio.com/community/t...ows-10.308061/


    Further followup - seems a lot of folks recommend Vituix CAD as being more modern, runs in WIn 10 and 11, and is FOC (Free of Charge)
    https://kimmosaunisto.net/Software/V...D_help_20.html

    Again, I have a MAC, so I can't says its complete or usable, but I have downloaded a fresh (trial) copy of VMware Fusion
    - just have to make time and see if I want to try installing Windows in a virtual space again ...

    2ch: RPi-4, Oppo, Acurus RL-11, Carver TFM-25, VonSchw VR-4, Heath AS-1348, JBL L212 (2pr)
    7: TIVO, Oppo BDP103D, B&K, UREI 809A, JBL B460

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riley Casey View Post
    Leap AFAIK has been unavailable for a couple of years at least. Do you know of a source now?
    Hi Riley.

    The answer is no l don’t. Have a look at the freeware program Heather posted.
    I look forward to you posting about a project you have put together.

    The creator of Leap did his internship at JBL under Ed May as l recall.

    Then later Peter Larson worked with Greg Timbers at JBL developing loudspeaker software.
    I have a photo of Greg at a party with Peter with wearing a wig. Those were the good times at JBL.

    Today Loudsoft owned by Peter Larson is recognised as the most advanced loudspeaker software available. It starts at around US$10,000 for the analyser. I thought about it but couldn’t justify it.
    On that front Erin’s Audio Corner website who had a very costly Klippel analyser has gone belly up after his wife announced she is filing for a divorce.

    Those who hold an existing Leap 5 licenses are it. The problems of getting it to run properly on more recent windows software are too numerous to discuss here. Leap 5 requires a Windows PC running XP Most legacy PCs that ran XP are long gone. I run Leap under a licensed virtual environment in a MAC Laptop l had built.


    You are best to try your hand at one of the free diy loudspeaker programs if you want to have a go at this yourself.

    Leap 5 is a specialised engineering program. It’s not a basic CAD program you can pick up and run with out of the box. The functionality is quite intricate and tedious. It took me a good five years to become proficient at a basic level with the program. There is a significant learning curve and you need to have a solid understanding of crossover network and loudspeaker acoustic design to use it efficiently. Otherwise you end up spending long hours night after night creating all sorts piece meal networks that don’t really work. You also need accurate measurement data or be able to create data for the program.

    l recommend you first look at what your loudspeaker is doing using REW which is free.

    Accurate SPL adjustments are possible inside your home with some practice. REW is free and has versions for both Mac and Windows. All you need as a mic with a calibration file. With some patience you dial in a cook book passive crossover with REW using an empirical approach. Greg Timbers has explained this is how he originally designed his JBL networks. Predicting a loudspeaker frequency curve with a simulator is a leap of faith (sorry). By varying the crossover R, C and L values you can iteratively work away at something that not only measures good but sounds good.

    Something that measures good does not sways sound good because drivers have unpredictable personalities. Just because a new employee interviewed well and had a good resume does not mean the employee will work out. If they don’t fit in the team nothing happens properly. And so it is with developing a loudspeaker.

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    I've been a Smaart user since it arrived on floppy disks and I'm happy with it at version 7. A new and impressive option is Open Sound Meter https://opensoundmeter.com/ which is also cross platform Mac / Windows, a big sell for me as Win XP was the last version of Windows I was conversant with. Learning to run measurements on a TEF analyzer made Smaart seem very downhill. I was asking about LEAP simply out of curiosity as it's really a different animal entirely from measurement software. I rarely design passive networks as a lifetime of having my cake and eating it too with active crossovers is hard to back up from.

    Measurements of the Purple People Eater speaker project are coming soon. Just need to run impedance curves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    Hi Riley.

    The answer is no l don’t. Have a look at the freeware program Heather posted.
    I look forward to you posting about a project you have put together...

  11. #11
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Leap AFAIK has been unavailable for a couple of years at least. Do you know of a source now?
    There have been people who have gotten it to work using the referenced thread in updated Windows versions but it's no easy task. I tried it and gave up in a Windows 7. I have it on my original XP machine that I hope stays alive for a couple more years. That's where my CLIO 7 is as well.

    Going to miss it when it eventually gives up the ghost. I have been using it for years and really like it. You give it accurate measurements and the predictions can be really close when you remeasure after the build. It does take awhile to get used to it but you do get a couple of excellent tutorials to get things going.

    I have both the Crossover and Box portions but use Bass Box Pro. Much quicker although no where near as detailed or complete compared to LEAP.

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

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    If you install a windows ultimate you “might” have more luck as it has XP built in.

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    Getting back on topic point of my commenting on the Leap 5 software is that with skill and a detailed understanding of the 43XX systems variations for users can be realised with a high degree of confidence. I have a growing portfolio of 43XX measurements using different drivers. I am also looking at different horns and uhf drivers.

    Throughout the product life ownership people will at one point or another will want to explore their own ideas and why not. It’s all about enablement of an idea and making it work and realising the result. You don’t need to be an expert when you can get a helping hand when you need it. And you don’t need go down a rabbit hole looking for the software and then learning how to use for a one off change to your system?

    For those who want to realise a 43XX variation or their own diy system l am available to offer support.

    As to “full active” system it’s a niche and not something that justifies the complexity and investment unless in the hands of a highly skilled user.




    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    Great to see a project come to fruition.

    I am a firm believer in realising variations of these famous 43XX monitors for system owners. Being able to put your own signature on the subjective results is about what makes your own ears happy. There are subtle differences in the mid cone and compression drivers. Mixing the older and newer components can bring about individualised “custom” presentations. Each to his own.

    Linear X Leap software enables realistic simulations using JBL specifications and even more accurate predictions of system performance with uploaded REW measurements of custom configurations. This takes the guess work out of inserting different diaphragms and drivers in these more complex multi way system. I can provide user defined driver adjustments with RC element values in 1.00 db steps for EQ and level matching. That way the user can accurately determine his / her preferences in his / her room.

  14. #14
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    Down the Rabbit Hole . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    Getting back on topic point of my commenting on the Leap 5 software is that with skill and a detailed understanding of the 43XX systems variations for users can be realised with a high degree of confidence. I have a growing portfolio of 43XX measurements using different drivers. I am also looking at different horns and uhf drivers.

    Throughout the product life ownership people will at one point or another will want to explore their own ideas and why not. ItÂ’s all about enablement of an idea and making it work and realising the result. You donÂ’t need to be an expert when you can get a helping hand when you need it. And you donÂ’t need go down a rabbit hole looking for the software and then learning how to use for a one off change to your system?

    For those who want to realise a 43XX variation or their own diy system l am available to offer support.

    As to “full active” system it’s a niche and not something that justifies the complexity and investment unless in the hands of a highly skilled user.
    Last sentence! Been there, etc. It gets beyond the hobby stage. Thing is, after some years, everything becomes unstable - connections, electronics degrade . . . and you don't realize it at first, the human brain tends to adapt. So, KISS is best philosophy in the real world. And, a well developed passive system sounds plenty good, to these ears, at least. In fact, better in some ways. No magic. I like your "down the rabbit hole" comment.

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    I'd be inclined to say just the opposite unless one is simply trying to recreate exactly an existing design as the R&D resources and skills required to iterate passive networks successfully are significantly larger than off the shelf DSP crossovers and a couple extra power amps but to each their own


    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    ...
    As to “full active” system it’s a niche and not something that justifies the complexity and investment unless in the hands of a highly skilled user.

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