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Thread: Seeking subwoofer recommendations to pair with XPL200's.

  1. #16
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    (since it was mentioned) If it helps anyone, I seem to recall using London Architect to configure the 366T via it's serial port (yet another anachronism and set of rabbit holes).

  2. #17
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    Were you able to run London Architect on a Windows OS newer than XP? It won't run on Win 10 for me and that seemed to be the consensus on the BSS forum when they had a section for the 366.

    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
    (since it was mentioned) If it helps anyone, I seem to recall using London Architect to configure the 366T via it's serial port (yet another anachronism and set of rabbit holes).

  3. #18
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riley Casey View Post
    Were you able to run London Architect on a Windows OS newer than XP? It won't run on Win 10 for me and that seemed to be the consensus on the BSS forum when they had a section for the 366.
    I know it ran on Win 7 (Parallels VM on a mac) when I setup some 366T units for TiDome. Used a keyspan style usb-serial converter.

    LA Version R6.00R5 still opens on Win 11 and I've used it with BLU-USB and BLU-100/160 type devices, but I no longer have an RS-232 type serial port (or a 366T handy). Perhaps this should go to a new/different thread?

  4. #19
    Senior Member DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riley Casey View Post
    Sorry, I meant to type BSS FDS360 crossover as being the ultimate analog crossover for those analog purists but of course the newest of those probably came off the production line twenty years ago and most on the used market lived pretty hard lives in portable systems. The BSS366T is a nice unit, I have two of them and they are my favorite DSP crossovers. I even keep a virtual machine installation of Windows XP to talk to them. This is because the control software will only run under XP and while you can accomplish most if not all of the configuration from the front panel ( if the display still works, not always a given with these ) you'll need to set aside a big block of time to navigate it all. Again another discontinued device. While those particular Ashly units are discontinued the current software will still work correctly with them under Win 10. I have two of those as well, one in my living room stereo so the Euroblock connectors aren't a terrible idea. Certainly better than RCA jacks but to each his own.

    If you're looking to save space and aggravation why not just go with an amp that has DSP crossover capabilities built in?
    https://labgruppen.com/product.html?modelCode=P0DNW
    Hmm, guess I'd have to look into the FDS360 then. Funny, I do have an old computer which runs XP, but I haven't used that computer since I was a teenager. Not sure if it would even fire up, so that's a headache I'd rather avoid. I'll keep an eye out for the FDS360 or those Ashly units. I don't mind the Euroblock connectors, I just don't have any at the moment or any other stuff which uses them. Certainly better than RCA, I would just prefer balanced connectors as there seems to be a lot more of that out there at the level I'm playing in.

    ~600 watts per channel at 8 ohms.. About twice the price of my K1, but would save me money over additional gear. How do those sound? The K1 is the most amazing amplifier I've heard yet on bass, on my shoestring budget of course. So I'd rather not step backwards.

    On the other hand, widget said "virtually all [passive] subs need Q." Are there some which already have that built in? How come I don't need to do anything for the 2214H in the XPL's?

    Lastly, what about those JBL pro subwoofers??? I am curious about those and want to try them, they're dirt cheap compared to everything else!

    Thank you for taking the time to reply to me. Just when I think I've started to comprehend what's going on and what I need, I get whacked in the head.

  5. #20
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    All the JBL pro subwoofers I'm familiar with use 18" drivers and aren't what I'd call small. A speaker that uses a 1/4" jack for its input isn't something that's targeted toward the pro market anyway. Even for musical instrument use NL connectors are used these days rather than 1/4 jacks.

    BTW the Euroblock connectors as used on that Ashly unit are balanced while a number of the XLRs used on the older BSS units are unbalanced outputs. The connector doesn't define the difference between balanced and un balanced circuitry.

    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    ...

    Lastly, what about those JBL pro subwoofers??? I am curious about those and want to try them, they're dirt cheap compared to everything else!

    Thank you for taking the time to reply to me. Just when I think I've started to comprehend what's going on and what I need, I get whacked in the head.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riley Casey View Post
    All the JBL pro subwoofers I'm familiar with use 18" drivers and aren't what I'd call small. A speaker that uses a 1/4" jack for its input isn't something that's targeted toward the pro market anyway. Even for musical instrument use NL connectors are used these days rather than 1/4 jacks.

    BTW the Euroblock connectors as used on that Ashly unit are balanced while a number of the XLRs used on the older BSS units are unbalanced outputs. The connector doesn't define the difference between balanced and un balanced circuitry.
    PRX815XLF are pretty compact, light, and self powered with outputs that have switchable hpf outputs if needed

    Friend of mine uses a pair of PRX715XLF under his PRX715 pair instead of the 18" version because he wanted something more compact.

  7. #22
    Senior Member DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riley Casey View Post
    All the JBL pro subwoofers I'm familiar with use 18" drivers and aren't what I'd call small. A speaker that uses a 1/4" jack for its input isn't something that's targeted toward the pro market anyway. Even for musical instrument use NL connectors are used these days rather than 1/4 jacks.

    BTW the Euroblock connectors as used on that Ashly unit are balanced while a number of the XLRs used on the older BSS units are unbalanced outputs. The connector doesn't define the difference between balanced and un balanced circuitry.
    NL.. Those look like Neutrik connectors? Are they one in the same? The passive pro JBL subwoofer I saw online seemed to have a 1/4 input. Least it's the only logical thing I deemed would work for it. Never saw a speaker with that before but it didn't appear to have been tampered with.

    I did see the Euroblock connector was three wire. I could get them which also terminate into XLR, so that works, but it means buying more cables. Not the end of the world, just added expense.

    Quote Originally Posted by short_circutz2 View Post
    PRX815XLF are pretty compact, light, and self powered with outputs that have switchable hpf outputs if needed

    Friend of mine uses a pair of PRX715XLF under his PRX715 pair instead of the 18" version because he wanted something more compact.
    I like their size, they would fit between my XPL's and response down to 38hz is satisfactory to me. Buutt, not a fan of them already having their own amplifier, especially at 1500W peak. Seems an amplifier instantly adds ~$1000 to the price tag. Would you happen to know any other pro JBL's that are approximately that size or utilize a 14 or 15" driver which are passive? They can be older, that's not an issue at all for me. Would probably save me money anyway. Although it's looking like I'm going to end up admitting defeat and buying a subwoofer with an amp in it..

  8. #23
    Senior Member DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    ::crickets::

    ..How about a set of JBL 4641's? 4547A's? I was reading on AudioKarma where someone used a pair of those in their house with good results.. JBL S2S-EX? Seems the 350 watts of the K1 wouldn't be enough to drive those though. Cool thread about the S2S here with a digital cutaway of it: JBL Synthesis S2S-EX Subwoofer (audioheritage.org) JBL SUB 18? (Just kidding, I'd have to upgrade the electrical system in my house to even think about running one of those.) On a side note, has anyone listened to a set of M2 monitors matched with a SUB 18?

  9. #24
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    RE NL.. Those look like Neutrik connectors? Are they one in the same?

    Let's not fool ourselves. During the 70's and 80's (possibly after too?) the 1/4" phone connector was widely used on MI and SR speakers. An example shown, on the JBL Cabaret Series 2 from Dec. 1986 (same on Series 1).

    On the other hand since Neutrik's Speakon (NL) connectors seem less familiar to you a quick overview follows.

    Richard

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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekTheGreat View Post
    ::crickets::
    ....On a side note, has anyone listened to a set of M2 monitors matched with a SUB 18?
    This member. He has a thread about the system in his previous home also.

    https://www.audioheritage.org/vbulle...18s-and-Cables

  11. #26
    Senior Member DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Ah, so some of those pro speakers did use that 1/4" input. I'm not crazy after all haha.. Thank you for the clarification, RMC! I've never seen a speaker cable which terminated with 1/4" though, but they must surely exist.

    Thanks for the link, Rusty! I checked it, but it was pretty much just a "for sale" ad, no information as to how they sound or their sound compared to other stuff Champster has had. Based on the list price for that gear though, awesome deal to the folks who snatched the stuff up! But even so, that was still way out of my league. It's times like these I wish I did better at life..

    So fellas, what do you think about a pair of 4641's or 4547A's??? Any other pro JBL subwoofers you could recommend? I feel down 35hz is deep enough for me, so they don't have to dig all the way down to 20hz. Would the spec sheets for a given subwoofer let me know if I need to run EQ on them for ideal response? Because if every subwoofer needs that, I can start hunting for a used BSS FDS360 as Riley mentioned.

    Derek

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    Hi Derek,

    These pro pa subs are generally rated at -10 db for the lower end frequency limit. They are really tuned for stage use with punch above 40 hertz.

    One possibility is to consider a jbl car sub. They are designed for a relatively compact enclosure volume and are tuned to go down lower than a pro pa sub.

    This is just an example:

    https://www.jbl.com.au/S3-1224.html

    https://www.jbl.com.au/on/demandware...SIII_OM_EN.pdf

    Jbl provide enclosure plans as well. Just add a Dayton dsp plate amp and your on your way.
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  13. #28
    Senior Member HCSGuy's Avatar
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    If you’re looking for a turnkey solution that fits the “theme” of your XPL-200’s, a S1S, S2S, or even the old Citation THX sub with LE14-1’s loaded would all be fun. Both the S1S and S2S have drivers that are modified for home use, and go lower than their pro equivalents, though they are less sensitive. Keep in mind that all of these subwoofers are strong to 30hz, but fall off after that. If you’re looking for something that can take a lot of power really low, for techno etc, at really high volume, I’d look at one of the modern woofers. Are you looking for a built solution, or are you willing to build a box?
    That the internet contains a blog documenting your life does not constitute proof that your existence is valid. Sorry.

  14. #29
    Senior Member DerekTheGreat's Avatar
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    Thank you for the in-depth reply, Ian!

    I did not know that about the Pro subs, but it makes sense. Perhaps I'd like that? Seems that's where the 2214H's need a little help anyway. Isn't 40-90hz where that tight kick drum is felt in the chest? I was listening to "Never Been Any Reason" by Head East and wow, the Crown K1 really tightened them up. But I thought 40hz @ 6db roll off was good enough for the 2214H's. I was wrong, but before I bottomed out the one woofer, that kick drum in that tune rocked, like being tapped in the chest. I never jammed that tune before like I did that day. Can't sing enough praise about a Crown K1 on low end duties.

    Anyway, I was hoping not to go with a car subwoofer or plate amp, don't think I need a big beefy unit like you linked lol. Or maybe I do? Am I the only one who bottoms out woofers? I was never able to bottom out or hear any weirdness with whatever 15" driver is in my Klipsch Cornwalls (K-33's I think? - Square magnet deal..), even when playing Axle F at high volumes. They just don't have the finesse of the XPL's though, and the cabinets are beat six ways to Sunday, so they went out to serve in the garage. If I had to go with a standalone subwoofer, I guess I'd look at getting another set of M&K MX-350THX's.

    Perhaps you could provide some insight into a curiosity of mine? So I've got these two JBL E250P's. The one has that issue where it turns off and on continuously and so I'm sure the other isn't far behind it. Compared to the M&K's, they're muddier than the Rio Grande, bloated even. Why? Based on the almost night and day performance difference between an Adcom GFA-555II and the Crown K1, I'm inclined to say that perhaps the amplifier is to blame. But maybe there's more to it, like port design and enclosure volume? What difference would the driver make in terms of tightness? Because I was thinking if it's primarily the amp in this case, I'll rip the amplifiers out of them and put 'em upstairs driven by that spare K1 I've got.



    Thank you for your response as well, HSCGuy!

    Yes, I want to be lazy and am indeed looking for a turnkey solution. I've got zero woodworking skills so a homemade subwoofer is a no-go for me.. I did not know that about the HK Citation 7.4 Subwoofer! I don't know much, but an LE14-H sounds like the perfect compliment to the XPL's. As for the other recommendations, would those be the Synthesis S1 and S2? Definitely not a techno guy or modern music person. When I jam out, it's rock 'n roll. Sometimes I'll jam some Nirvana, Mumford & Sons, The Black Keys or Modest Mouse, but that's about as modern as I get. That stuff digs much deeper than I thought, so a subwoofer which has response below 35 or 30hz might be too much for that material. When I did have the M&K subwoofer in place with the L150A's, I couldn't adjust it right, it was often too much bass for me. Like, I'd get the floor/wall shaking bass to my liking, but then I'd lose the impact of the kick drum.

  15. #30
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    My impression is your asking more than the XPL drivers are designed to deliver.




    Sound reproduction is a very personal thing and you are best guided by your own ears. Ultimately your ears decide on what you like and what makes you happy. Not a review or an opinion.

    The hard part is working out what you need to do about it? Bass or low frequency reproduction interacts with your listening in complicated ways and requires far more power than mid and high frequencies. It’s just the way it is. Small rooms (any residential living space) are notoriously more challenging for a good bass so your going to have your work cut our for you. Spare a thought for your neighbour!

    Looking at your XPL250 system it looks like your reaching their limits to achieve what you like. If you like chest thumping bass transients as opposed to low bass extension for home theatre then your requirements are a bit more focused.

    Its helpful to look at the tunes you play and understand what it is you need to amplify?

    Typically (as a generalisation) most 4 string guitars have a fundamental that starts at around 40 hertz. There exception such as a 5 or 6 string that start at 31 hertz.

    https://www.studybass.com/gear/bass-...equency-range/

    Quoting the link above “While the fundamental range of the bass extends up to around 400Hz, most bass playing occurs with fundamentals below that between 40Hz and 200Hz.”

    Next are drums. A kick drum fundamental is around 50 hertz and toms are 70 hertz while a snare starts at 100 hertz.

    So if this is your thing then it comes down to what will work out best to incorporate into your existing or perhaps a new loudspeaker system.

    You need clean tones and lots dynamic range to reproduce the type of bass you like.

    A home theatre sub or even a hifi sub is unlikely to cut it because they are more focused on creating deeper bass.

    Clearly the 2214H isn’t going to cut it attempting to reach the levels you require. The 2314H driver is relatively inefficient and it simply can’t move enough air without distortion.

    My suggestion is look at a 15 inch pro direct radiator sub system as a stereo pair or an 18 inch direct radiator system.

    The next point is how to integrate with your XPL250.

    What l would do is try running your XPL250 in passive mode and cross then over at 150 hertz to your stereo subs. This will let your subs shine where it counts most while still retaining the finesse of your main system. A dsp crossover like a Drive Rack will work fine. If your subs are self powered that’s easy or look at your K1 or like in the link below.

    https://djcity.com.au/product/behrin...h-smart-sense/

    The particular bass system is entirely up to you and what your rears tell you.

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