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Thread: JBL 4429 ANd MC 275 MKII

  1. #1
    Senior Member davidpou's Avatar
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    JBL 4429 ANd MC 275 MKII

    Hi guys,
    i am gonna get a pair of 4429 tomorrow and i am so excited about it !
    Finnaly i catch up with time in the JBL production, and will leave vintage, if my ears say so.

    i read they are 6 ohms speakers...
    I have the choice with the 275 between 4 and 8 ohms... speaker connections (and 16 but out of topic);
    Which one I should plug the speakers to please ?

  2. #2
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Congratulations on the new speakers!

    I would start with 4 ohms as was previously suggested, but I would try both taps. If either one sounds better to you, then that’s is the tap time use. You aren’t going to damage anything by using the “wrong” tap.


    Widget

  3. #3
    Senior Member davidpou's Avatar
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    thanks and thanks !

    will let you know what i think. My two "worries", are little less bass than the 4425, and a medium "projected in the face" like the array (sorry for the array lovers).

    It will be funny to have the mother and the child together ? (4425 1991 ? and 4429 2012 ? not sure about the date... young mother at 21

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    David. I have the 4429's. Had them for several years. I would recommend the stands that come with the L100 Classic 75's. You can buy them separately. Also, they seem to image best pointed straight ahead or slightly pointed out. Experiment with the positioning. Congrats on the new speakers!

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    Senior Member davidpou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlcnm View Post
    David. I have the 4429's. Had them for several years. I would recommend the stands that come with the L100 Classic 75's. You can buy them separately. Also, they seem to image best pointed straight ahead or slightly pointed out. Experiment with the positioning. Congrats on the new speakers!
    Thanks !
    Have them since last night. i didn't even try to measure to set the pots right to my room. i was too excited
    indeed next thing is to set them right. i see the JBL stands (thant were not part of the deal) are 20 cm high which seems a bit low with my wooden floor. I have stands that were made custom for my L101 that are 42 cm high. As a result the tweeter with the 4429 are like 10 to 15 cm above my ears... do the math stupid! you might say. sure; i ll measure and see if i have to cut the feet !

    Anyway it s time to see if my room can welcome them... this room is not wave friendly with lots of reflecting surfaces.
    Last edited by davidpou; 06-22-2022 at 12:41 AM. Reason: orthographe

  6. #6
    Senior Member davidpou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Congratulations on the new speakers!

    I would start with 4 ohms as was previously suggested, but I would try both taps. If either one sounds better to you, then that’s is the tap time use. You aren’t going to damage anything by using the “wrong” tap.


    Widget
    i started with 8 ohms as the seller was set like that and said it was the best he got. he was running big monoblock mcintosh so should be fine.

    since you know the range so well i wanted your word on this primary (and subjective) thought:
    The 4429 is indeed better in many (every) way as compared to 70 to 90s production. not going into details the 1200 FE8 beats the superb 2214H no problem. My concern is about the mids and highs. And it arises specifically with the saxophone (and a little with the voices). I had very beautiful results in the 4430 with the 2425H and expensive condos ; And this specific instrument is sounding a bit like a "duck" in the 4429. Moving even backward in time, the LE175 of the L101 measured better than the 2214H (as shown in an erlier post here by someone else trying waveguides on different JBL compressions) and was also very natural.

    My point would be this one: don't you think that although progresses have been made in every aspects of the tweeters, they loose also natural timber. Being more refined (less crude) they are also less natural on some instruments or passage ?

    I would love to have the L101 with a ribbon tweeter that goes well high and match the beautifull timbers of the LE14A ont he drums and percussion...

  7. #7
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidpou View Post
    since you know the range so well i wanted your word on this primary (and subjective) thought:
    The 4429 is indeed better in many (every) way as compared to 70 to 90s production. not going into details the 1200 FE8 beats the superb 2214H no problem. My concern is about the mids and highs. And it arises specifically with the saxophone (and a little with the voices). I had very beautiful results in the 4430 with the 2425H and expensive condos ; And this specific instrument is sounding a bit like a "duck" in the 4429. Moving even backward in time, the LE175 of the L101 measured better than the 2214H (as shown in an erlier post here by someone else trying waveguides on different JBL compressions) and was also very natural.

    My point would be this one: don't you think that although progresses have been made in every aspects of the tweeters, they loose also natural timber. Being more refined (less crude) they are also less natural on some instruments or passage ?

    I would love to have the L101 with a ribbon tweeter that goes well high and match the beautifull timbers of the LE14A ont he drums and percussion...
    Unfortunately I can't give you any feedback on the 4429. I have never heard them. I am also not familiar with either of the HF units used in the speakers.

    Regarding the "natural timbre"? The 4429 uses titanium diaphragms in both HF units which is not my favorite. The better JBLs use Al, Mg or Be... all three of which have sounded better to my ears in every example I have heard. Others don't seem to have an issue with Ti compression drivers. There are objective and subjective differences mostly concerning distortion and diaphragm breakup modes.


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    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hello

    How are the level controls set?? You might want to turn the midrange control down a notch or two and then give it another try.

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidpou View Post
    Thanks !
    Have them since last night. i didn't even try to measure to set the pots right to my room. i was too excited
    indeed next thing is to set them right. i see the JBL stands (thant were not part of the deal) are 20 cm high which seems a bit low with my wooden floor. I have stands that were made custom for my L101 that are 42 cm high. As a result the tweeter with the 4429 are like 10 to 15 cm above my ears... do the math stupid! you might say. sure; i ll measure and see if i have to cut the feet !

    Anyway it s time to see if my room can welcome them... this room is not wave friendly with lots of reflecting surfaces.
    Hi David,

    The 4429 looks to be a very nice system.

    Below is a review FWIW.

    I note your comment on the height of your stands.

    One of the things that upsets the tonal balance is the listening height relative to the system engineering design point or the microphone measurement height used to optimise the loudspeaker during voicing. Voicing is process of fine tuning the overall tonal balance of the loudspeaker by the JBL engineer when he/she listens to the 4429 at the recommended listening height. What happens is variations occur in the crossover regions (points 800 hertz & 7000 hertz.) when your listening height is either above or below the origin of the design point. These variations also depend on your listening distance from the loudspeakers. JBL recommend you align the Hf unit at ear level (if possible). In the owner manual recommendations are made on the listening position and angle relative to the loudspeakers.(see below)

    Secondly these horn systems will show an audible shift in tonality in the vertical domain as the horns have controlled directly H x V. JBL make some recommendations in the owners manual.(see my cut and paste below).

    Thirdly you will get a bounce cancellation/bump in the response off the floor at certain frequencie(s). This will effect your perception of tonal balance depending on the overall room acoustics and program material being played. It might sound thin or thick in the lower mid range and may highlight nor smudge other frequencies.

    In the owners manual JBL suggests a break in period of one or two months.

    The L pads are not switched precision steps types so your going to have to play with them a bit or preferably do some measurements with REW or something and average the measurements for your listening position. When they don't offer switched attenuation, although tedious doing you own measurement calibration is peace of mind and it generally makes a big difference subjectively. Measuring the actual distances from both loudspeakers also helps define the stereo sound stage. The benefit of a detailed setup is the tonal balance and stereo image tend to fall into place and you feel more relaxed to focus in on the actual tune your listening to.

    Edit:

    Review
    https://www.cnet.com/reviews/jbl-mod...eakers-review/

    From the JBL 4429 Owner Manual.

    "If you are using two monitors, install them by using a recorded sound source that has a distinct virtual center image. Find the center point between the monitors by measuring the distance between the left and right monitors. Adjust the distance between the listening position and the monitors, as well as the distance between the right and left monitors, to obtain a precise centre image.

    We have designed these monitors to reproduce the stereo soundstage most accurately when the interior angle between each monitor and the listener is 40 to 60 degrees. Additionally, it is ideal to place the monitors approximately 50cm (20") or more from the left and right walls. The center of the monitor's sound image is in the vicinity of the HF (high- frequency) unit. Set the monitors to align the HF unit at ear level. To avoid acoustical interference with the floor surface, we recommend that you place the monitors on a sturdy base (cube or block shaped) with a thickness of 5cm 20cm (2" 8")."
    Last edited by Ian Mackenzie; 06-22-2022 at 09:22 PM. Reason: A additional information

  10. #10
    Senior Member davidpou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    Hi David,

    The 4429 looks to be a very nice system.
    Well well well... I don't know what to think for now.

    i did play a lot with placement within the square meter they are bound to be provided they are in my living room.
    I brought back the 4430 stands that are 20 cm high and lifted the front by 1 cm so as the tweeters point at my ears (2 cm is like 30 or 40 cm above my head.
    I am seating at 3.5 m from the speakers, so if my maths are good its does a separation between them comprised in the 1.40m to 2.20m....

    How did I end up ? against the backwall to avoid a terrible dip in the 80 Hz on the right speaker, and to minimize a terrible bump at approx the same freq on the left one (in a corner).

    Also suprisingly height between 20 cm and 40 cm didn't make much difference, the compressions on the left one was more disturbed at 20 cm than at 40 cm....

    even more suprisingly, as i placed the speakers facing (not pinced) I had to put both treble and highs pots almost to the max ! suggesting a loss with directivity I did not observed with both the 4430 and 4425 in the same room at the same place! very strange as they blabla a lot about their waveguide.
    Last but not least there is supposedly a 2DB difference in sensitivity between the 4430 and the 4429 but to get (not measured but by ear) the same level I add more like 4dB to the 4429 (on my homecinema amplifier)
    Finally, I have to do back to back comparison but It seems (to me) that although voices and horns are clearer, more distinct, (I get a very very good centered image on the singer (when he/she is centered)), they are also less natural in timber than on the 4430.
    I feel a bit disappointed. But shity also as they ought to be better .
    Here are my best results with no correction but the potentiometers; they are tuned to follows a 2.2 db slope from 2500 Hz onward. And again, to get this both pots are at max or close.



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  11. #11
    Senior Member davidpou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    The better JBLs use Al, Mg or Be... all three of which have sounded better to my ears in every example I have heard.
    Widget
    As in get your self a pair of 4365 or 4367 ?!

  12. #12
    Senior Member davidpou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlcnm View Post
    David. I have the 4429's. Had them for several years. I would recommend the stands that come with the L100 Classic 75's. You can buy them separately. Also, they seem to image best pointed straight ahead or slightly pointed out. Experiment with the positioning. Congrats on the new speakers!
    thanks for the tips as you can read in the ian answer I did take into acount your remarks. Do you also have to set the pots to the max , do you measure ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidpou View Post
    thanks for the tips as you can read in the ian answer I did take into acount your remarks. Do you also have to set the pots to the max , do you measure ?
    I have the Mid horn set to the top of the ball in the center zero point. The HF horn to the lower end of the ball in the center zero point. David. Do you have a calibrated microphone?

  14. #14
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlcnm View Post
    Do you have a calibrated microphone?
    I have an original CLIO measurement system and have used it since 2005. I have recently purchased the new Pocket CLIO. I also have and frequently use Studio Six Digital's suite of audio measurement tools with the iPrecision mic. I mention all of this to show I am a believer in measurements to the point of spending several thousand dollars on measurement tools.

    That said, measurements help with many things but rarely sound quality. In my job and in my hobby I use a combination of measurement tools heavily weighted by my onboard audio analysis tools (two ears and brain).

    I think the suggestions about placement and tweaking the adjustments are crucial... if that doesn't result in the desired outcome, I would follow this up by measuring each speaker under identical conditions to verify the speakers are working correctly. I would also try a different amp to make sure you don't have a compatibility issue.


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    Senior Member davidpou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnlcnm View Post
    I have the Mid horn set to the top of the ball in the center zero point. The HF horn to the lower end of the ball in the center zero point. David. Do you have a calibrated microphone?
    i do the mini dsp one.

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