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  1. #1
    Junior Member retromick's Avatar
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    End game Speaker system, M2 or K2

    hey guys,
    been a while since I have posted, I am preparing my 4435's for sale and looking to by my end game speakers.
    I have an opportunity to purchase the M2 or K2 at a reasonable price.
    I have Bryston amplification and also have a pair of Sub-18 clones with Crown amplification.
    I would like to hear from you guys on your opinions of both.
    I have spent time with the M2,s but not the K2s9900.
    Thoughts?

    thanks in advance
    Mick

  2. #2
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    I will give you one person's opinion. Since you have a subwoofer, for me the answer is easy. I would go with the K2S9900.

    The M2 is arguably the better speaker, but for me the dynamics of the 4" compression driver trumps the D2 ring radiator. Both systems have exceptional woofers, the M2 may play a bit lower, but they are both excellent.

    Others will likely disagree and prefer the accuracy and imaging of the M2.


    Widget

  3. #3
    Junior Member retromick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I will give you one person's opinion. Since you have a subwoofer, for me the answer is easy. I would go with the K2S9900.

    The M2 is arguably the better speaker, but for me the dynamics of the 4" compression driver trumps the D2 ring radiator. Both systems have exceptional woofers, the M2 may play a bit lower, but they are both excellent.

    Others will likely disagree and prefer the accuracy and imaging of the M2.


    Widget
    Thanks for the reply Mr Widget,
    I love the look of the K2, for years I have had large ugly monitors, ( apart from the S4700s i had briefly).
    The M2's I listened to were great, very dynamic and great imagining, but I have gone away from amps
    with fans etc, I do most of my listening at night these days and the fans in amps are definitely something I can do without.
    That's if I went done the crown pro amp route with the M2. I really want to stay with my Bryston electronics and up grade the speakers only.
    I am trying to get over the other side of Australia so I can listen to a pair of the K2s, they are number 1 on my list pending the sound.
    thanks again.

  4. #4
    Member sebackman's Avatar
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    Hi retromick.

    There is no problem using your Bryston amps with M2. Get a used BSS DSP unit and all JBL settings are available in the form of a downloadable macro or use the discrete DSP settings table available here on LH.

    I auditioned the M2's back-when in the JBL flag store in NYC with Mark Levinson amps and a BSS DSP. They were side-by-side with a pair of Levison bi-amped 67000. That was a nice afternoon.

    It is not likely that the M2 setting specifically made for the BSS DSP will provide exactly the same output from a different processor. I have found that different processor does not output the same curve with identical settings and signal identical input.

    Most likely they can be tweaked to deliver the same output but it would have to be the result of measuring and comparing with the correct factory curve. Doable but time consuming. Some algorithms are probably identical to the BSS, but I have not seen any "list" on that.

    The BSS DSP's do have some nasty sounding fans but they can easily be replaced with silent ones or removed for domestic use. There is a thread here on LH regarding that topic alone.

    I would argue that the newer BSS DSP's are "inaudible" and good enough out of the box, but if you want to take it to the next level you can get a BSS unit with digital input cards and digital output cards. This would omit any AD/DA conversions and you can use your preferred DA.

    You can feed digital data in SPDIF or AES/EBU from you favorite platform direct to the DSP.

    The buildable BSS chassis (BLU160 & BLU800) had 4 card slots and each card can hold 4 balanced analogue or digital channels, so 16 channels all in all for one chassis. Several chassis can be daisy chained for more channels or distribution.

    In a multi-way speaker I would recommend the looking Okto Research 8-channel DAC unit. It may well be the best multi-channel DA on the planet at this point and reasonable priced. It does include a 8-channel volume control and is remote ready.

    Okto Research

    Here is a review of the stereo version. Brilliant DAC to combine with any digital USB source.

    Okto dac8 stereo DAC Review | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

    Such combo will be very difficult to beat.

    Regarding M2 vs K2, the M2 is 100 by 100 degrees dissipation which is fine a a treated studio but may not be suitable for all domestic rooms. I would guess that the K2's are easier to integrate at home. (maybe you have a treated room and then none of this matters)

    I also agree with Widget on preferring the 4" drivers so right now we are building a 4367 clone with a 4" driver and DSP. We will see how that pans out and it will be interesting to compare them to the M2's.

    I guess that the bigger diaphragm of the 4" may allow them to go a little lower and in a 2-way setup with a big 15" that needs to be crossed below break-up and beaming that extra low-end capability is helpful.

    A limitation of the 4" drivers is that the Titanium diaphragm's are not very suitable for HiFi which prompted the use of exotic materials like Mg and Be. Those are sonically excellent, but do fall off in the topp-end. I think that is what prompted JBL to use UHF units in the K2 series (if not marketing).

    In a DSP setup you can easily boost the top-end in the 4" driver but I found using a 045 UHF gave more enjoyable solution (don't really know why, beaming?). Hence, even being on a fully active DSP system I still use UHF over my 4" Be's (on M2 wave guides).

    The compromise is using SL diaphragms in the 4" drivers and that is what I do in most cases now. They sound wonderful and can easily go to 20k without the need for a UHF.

    SL is now "old" technology and JBL could not sell such combo in the K2 price range, hence exotic material to some extent. I find the difference between Be and SL very small and clearly acceptable as a 2-way is much easier to get right.

    If you go the K2 route it may be interesting to find out how Mr. Timbers runs his S9900, as they are run fully DSP active. That should be a killer combo.

    Disregarding the price difference and visual appearance, they are both are killer speakers and truly end-game investments.

    Kind regards
    //Rob
    The solution to the problem changes the problem.
    -And always remember that all of your equipment was made by the lowest bidder

  5. #5
    Super Moderator jblnut's Avatar
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    For 1/10th the price the 4760 is worth a listen if you can get away with its world-class anti-WAF looks :-). I heard the K2-S9900 recently and came away somewhat unimpressed after 2 years of 4670 ownership. Most of us can't hear over 15k anyway so the lack of a tweeter is moot.

    The 4" compression driver and dual 15's will redefine dynamics for you. The musicians are IN THE ROOM like no other speaker I've heard. And the resolution is just uncanny.

    I still use an old analog electronic xover as I felt the modern digital units (and their necessary AD-DA steps) lose something as compared to an all analog unit.


    jblnut

  6. #6
    Member Fitero's Avatar
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    Ears (listening impressions) seem to be varied. When my buddy listened to my M2s, he quickly sold his K2S9900s and bought a pair for himself.

  7. #7
    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jblnut View Post
    For 1/10th the price the 4760 is worth a listen if you can get away with its world-class anti-WAF looks :-). I heard the K2-S9900 recently and came away somewhat unimpressed after 2 years of 4670 ownership. Most of us can't hear over 15k anyway so the lack of a tweeter is moot.
    So, which is it? 4670 or 4760?
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

  8. #8
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sebackman View Post

    I also agree with Widget on preferring the 4" drivers so right now we are building a 4367 clone with a 4" driver and DSP. We will see how that pans out and it will be interesting to compare them to the M2's.


    The compromise is using SL diaphragms in the 4" drivers and that is what I do in most cases now. They sound wonderful and can easily go to 20k without the need for a UHF.

    //Rob

    Hello Rob

    The 2216ND in combination with a 4" driver is excellent! You won't be disappointed. Agree on the SL's. Use a pair in my HT mains and they sound great!

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  9. #9
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    It seems any time I've ever heard a bigger mid range horn it sounds better. If done correctly of course.
    No wonder those Western Electric guys love those jumbo floor horns. They must sound incredible!

    There is just something about a big horn and 4 inch driver that seems to works well. As said by others here as well.
    I use 3 2360's in my best setup. You can literally stick your head in those horns and hear very little really. They seem to project so well. It's kind of weird actually. It sounds like nothing is coming out of them even if you stand directly in front on them. It's an odd effect. I don't use them for much as I crossover into a set of big 2395 slant plates as the next speaker in the 5 way setup.
    I've often wanted hear or get the bigger JBL horns with the 3 inch exit driver. The 2490H
    Anybody ever hear that on the 2393 or 2394 or 2392 horns?

  10. #10
    Junior Member retromick's Avatar
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    Hi all thanks so much for your valuable input, I'm hoping to get the K2's across the line in a few days, fingers crossed!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by retromick View Post
    hey guys,
    been a while since I have posted, I am preparing my 4435's for sale and looking to by my end game speakers.
    I have an opportunity to purchase the M2 or K2 at a reasonable price.
    I have Bryston amplification and also have a pair of Sub-18 clones with Crown amplification.
    I would like to hear from you guys on your opinions of both.
    I have spent time with the M2,s but not the K2s9900.
    Thoughts?

    thanks in advance
    Mick
    I'd say the end game depends on your final destination. Since I have both M2s and K2S9900s, I'm able to put them in different destinations according to 1) the media I expect to use, 2) the size of the space, 3) the ability/inability to treat the environment, and 4) the specific tolerances granted by Annie, who, just for the record, is pretty tolerant but not a pushover.


    Thus, the K2s are fine to put on public display in the great/kitchen/dining/entry mega room of about 10,000 cubic feet. She likes the looks that match the general palette of the room, loves the sound, and likes the ease of operation. Actively bi-amped with BSS 366T compact omnidrive speaker management units and ATI 3-channel amps, they work with two S2S subs to effortlessly fill the entire space with exceptional sound. Designer Greg Timbers, who actively bi-amps his own K2s, has heard them and validated the active bi-amp and sub augmentation. This is clearly and truly a two-channel system whose focus is solely on reproducing music as accurately and beautifully as possible in a large volume space.


    She appreciates the M2s for their amazing sound fidelity, so much so that she bought us a JVC NX7 to get comparable video quality. But she’s not so much into the looks. In the “movie room,” they form the L-C-R front stage behind an acoustically transparent screen. The tunings are provided by an SDEC 4500P (rebranded BSS unit) which feeds multiple channels of two five-channel Fosgate Audionics (Hafler trans•nova) fanless amps. Augmented by JBL’s S1S-EX 18” subs, they provide the theatrical atmosphere and dynamics that make movies come to life. They can also animate live concert material to a level that gives me that “you are there” experience without the pickpockets, smokers, beer drinkers, and fondlers that make live concerts so special. It’s probably a sixties flashback, but I’d swear I can smell some sweet leaf when I listen to live concerts, and with the M2s I can have the ringing post-concert ears if I’m not careful.


    So, what’s your destination? If it’s glorious two-channel music that runs the gamut from Acapella to acoustic to Baroque to classical to country to dance to electronic trance to jazz to rock to soul to trap—or even K-pop, and you want it to fill your house, then the K2 is the one for you.


    If it’s the subtle rustle of a step on leaves to a whispered secret to a blaring alarm to a massive explosion that thumps your chest, flaps your pant legs, and makes you wonder if a truck hit your house, all in immersive, full environmental sonic reality, then the M2 is your baby.


    You can find a large number of specs, tests, white papers, and opinions about both of these fine loudspeakers. Read up, if you’d like. This comment is my completely subjective response to your question, based on my experience with my equipment in my home using my preferences and my ears.


    Best of luck in making your decision. I hope you get to the right destination for you.

    n.b., I've had the K2s for more than a decade, and the M2s for six years.


    Out.

  12. #12
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    I'd say the end game depends on your final destination. Since I have both M2s and K2S9900s...

    Great to hear from you and to get your perspective. How great is it to have these choices?!


    Widget

  13. #13
    Junior Member retromick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Great to hear from you and to get your perspective. How great is it to have these choices?!


    Widget
    hey Mr Widget
    sorry for the late response, I suffered a heart attack and now dealing with covid, im looking at the responses now
    Mick

  14. #14
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retromick View Post
    I suffered a heart attack and now dealing with covid, im looking at the responses now
    Geez, you know how to have fun. Get better soon!


    Widget

  15. #15
    Junior Member retromick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    Geez, you know how to have fun. Get better soon!


    Widget
    I know right, that's just the beginning, while I was away for work, (before my Heart attack), my Apartment
    was damaged in a storm, When I returned home, one of my 4435's had been damaged, thankfully my insurance
    company has given me a budget to replace them, (policy was new for old), I have decided to go with the K2 S9900.
    I have found a demo pair out of the country at the right price, we are working through the deal now. God willing it goes through,
    I watched the interviews with Erin and GT, I will purchase a DEQX pre and maybe a quality valve amp for the top end,
    If this doesn't scratch my itch, I will go golfing!

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