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Thread: Woofer 2213 H positive or negative transducer ?

  1. #16
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by imai View Post
    I finally ascertained that the woofer 123a-1 and positive transducer
    and the 2213h and a negative transducer.
    I ask you having foolishly replaced the 2213h with the 123a-1 in my 4312 first series (with original crossower
    )What should I do ? reverse the wires behind the 123a-1?
    to have a right crossover ?

    thanks for the help luigi

    If the only difference between the two woofers is the polarity, no big deal. Just reverse the wires at the woofer.


    Widget

  2. #17
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    [QUOTE=Mr. Widget;439851] Se l'unica differenza tra i due woofer la polarit, non un grosso problema. Basta invertire i fili del woofer.

    I hope to definitively remedy the mistake of replacing the two woofers

    Very thanks Mr Widget.....

  3. #18
    Senior Member edgewound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by imai View Post
    I finally ascertained that the woofer 123a-1 and positive transducer
    and the 2213h and a negative transducer.
    I ask you having foolishly replaced the 2213h with the 123a-1 in my 4312 first series (with original crossower
    )What should I do ? reverse the wires behind the 123a-1?
    to have a right crossover ?

    thanks for the help luigi

    Yes...Just reverse the wires.

    That said...the 2213H, if in good working order...is a superior woofer to the 123A-1/2212. If someone told you otherwise, you were lied to. The ONLY thing that might make the 123A-1 "more valuable" is the AlNiCo magnet, which is also removable from the frame, and which carries a mystique that ceramic does not have, but the ceramic 2213H is a better performer.
    Edgewound...JBL Pro Authorized...since 1988
    Upland Loudspeaker Service, Upland, CA

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bordowound View Post
    S... Basta invertire i fili.

    questo... la 2213H, se in buone condizioni di funzionamento... un woofer superiore al 123A-1/2212. Se qualcuno ti diceva il contrario, ti hanno mentito. L'UNICA cosa che potrebbe rendere il 123A-1 "pi prezioso" il magnete AlNiCo, che anche rimovibile dal telaio, e che porta una mistica che la ceramica non ha, ma la ceramica 2213H una performance migliore.

    thanks for your answer,
    yes in fact and 'went so' I advised to replace the 2213h with 123a-1/2/3 in alnico because' better from a sound point of view so' also the 5/12 with le5/2 in alnico ...
    In addition 'without making any changes to the crossover,
    In practice now I have a 4312 hybrid .. which I believe has no one...
    unfortunately I can't go back buying the original drivers would be too expensive for me.
    Thanks again for the support

  5. #20
    Senior Member Woofer's Avatar
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    Woofer 2213 H positive or negative transducer ?

    This is an old thread, but I thought I'd add this extra bit.I just purchased a pair of 2213 [Alnico] to replace a pair of dead ones, and although they are both original, they are opposite in polarity to each other.Anyway, point is, yes, always do the battery check before you wire them in.Cheers all....
    I might be deaf, but I can still hear da bells! (Quasimodo)
    .... Oh, and the Kick Drum.

  6. #21
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Hi woofer,

    Just trying to find an explanation. What comes to mind...

    JBL started switching polarity from black positive to red positive in early 90's according to tech note V1 no 12C. So in your pair purchased you have an older made (prior 90) and a newer made 90's and on?

    Close or far apart drivers serial number may confirm they were built at same or different times hence the polarity issue?

    Alternatively, one was reconed with the original kit but was incorrectly wired during some repair?

    Btw 2213H in your title is ferrite and 2213 is Alnico as you probably already know. Regards,

    Richard
    POWERED BY: QSC, Ashly, Tascam, Rolls Mosfet, NAD, and Crest Audio

  7. #22
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    A few years ago I purchased a pair of 4311B speakers with one damaged 2213H woofer. Both woofers had gray colored frames and looking for a replacement, only black frames were available so, being afflicted with OCD, I purchased two woofers with black frames so that in the event I developed the ability to see thru the enclosures, I would not be bothered by the mismatch.

    At the time, I was not aware that the 2213H woofers had the black terminal as the positive connection or that there may be some JBL woofers that may have been mis-wired at the factory. I will pull the woofers to test their polarity.

    So, assuming my 2213H woofers are a matched pair, both wired with the black terminals as positive, should the positive wire from the crossover (which from memory is green) , be connected to the BLACK TERMINAL (positive) or the RED TERMINAL (negative) of the woofers?

  8. #23
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Hi Bedrock,

    I think i have something for you with regards to your 2213H question. I don't have time right now but i'll post it tomorrow.

    Richard
    POWERED BY: QSC, Ashly, Tascam, Rolls Mosfet, NAD, and Crest Audio

  9. #24
    Senior Member Woofer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMC View Post
    Hi woofer,Just trying to find an explanation. What comes to mind...JBL started switching polarity from black positive to red positive in early 90's according to tech note V1 no 12C. So in your pair purchased you have an older made (prior 90) and a newer made 90's and on?Close or far apart drivers serial number may confirm they were built at same or different times hence the polarity issue?Alternatively, one was reconed with the original kit but was incorrectly wired during some repair? Btw 2213H in your title is ferrite and 2213 is Alnico as you probably already know. Regards,Richard
    Hi Richard,Incorrectly wiring the polarity, just isn't possible unless you physically swap the braids over which would result in them crossing over each other.. They'd short out in no time.I'm guessing the only way polarity reversal can happen is, as mentioned before, is if the magnet was flipped during manufacture.Maybe the voice coil might have been put in the wrong way round during the assembly of the cone, but highly unlikely as the lead in wires would be at the wrong end of the former.I'm curious enough to pull the drivers out one day soon and actually check the polarity of the magnets.Woof.
    I might be deaf, but I can still hear da bells! (Quasimodo)
    .... Oh, and the Kick Drum.

  10. #25
    Senior Member Woofer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedrock602 View Post
    A few years ago I purchased a pair of 4311B speakers with one damaged 2213H woofer. Both woofers had gray colored frames and looking for a replacement, only black frames were available so, being afflicted with OCD, I purchased two woofers with black frames so that in the event I developed the ability to see thru the enclosures, I would not be bothered by the mismatch. At the time, I was not aware that the 2213H woofers had the black terminal as the positive connection or that there may be some JBL woofers that may have been mis-wired at the factory. I will pull the woofers to test their polarity. So, assuming my 2213H woofers are a matched pair, both wired with the black terminals as positive, should the positive wire from the crossover (which from memory is green) , be connected to the BLACK TERMINAL (positive) or the RED TERMINAL (negative) of the woofers?
    According to the schematics for the x-o, green/black to -ve. But then again, does that mean the black terminal??????
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    I might be deaf, but I can still hear da bells! (Quasimodo)
    .... Oh, and the Kick Drum.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woofer View Post
    According to the schematics for the x-o, green/black to -ve. But then again, does that mean the black terminal??????
    If the schematic is to be taken at face value, then testing the woofer for polarity and disregarding the color of the binding post seems to be the smart thing to do

  12. #27
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Hi bedrock,

    As promised additional info regarding 2213H polarity.

    The easy answer to your question is to follow the wiring diagram(s) in the JBL documents attached. In practice it MIGHT not be that simple as there were a number of revisions of said documents (6 of them! A to F).

    I've read in some thread where a guy indicated 2213H is black positive (as if all H were that way). He should know better considering his line of work. Truth is it can be black positive or red positive depending on year it was made. e.g. built say 1985 it will be black positive, whereas built say 1995 it will be red positive, for the same version. I don't think there's a manufacturing date on the drivers.

    The 2213H were not only oldies, some were more recent. On a JBL 2010 official price list i have the 2213H was still offered for sale (btw retail $426.) so some might still have been manufactured around those years, or its old stock being let go until depleted.

    I've attached revisions A (no date) and F (2007), older and newer, that i have of the 4311B Tech Manual. I don't have time to compare diagrams on both, item by item, however there should be a difference somewhere to reflect the black to red positive switch.

    I know this may not resolve your issue with certainty but you have some context here. On the other hand matching your driver with a mfr date, then matching such with the corresponding revision of the Tech Manual isn't necessarily a piece of cake.

    However in absence of the date they were made your best bet could be to pull out the drivers and test their actual polarity.

    Richard
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    POWERED BY: QSC, Ashly, Tascam, Rolls Mosfet, NAD, and Crest Audio

  13. #28
    Senior Member Woofer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMC View Post
    Hi bedrock,As promised additional info regarding 2213H polarity.The easy answer to your question is to follow the wiring diagram(s) in the JBL documents attached. In practice it MIGHT not be that simple as there were a number of revisions of said documents (6 of them! A to F). I've read in some thread where a guy indicated 2213H is black positive (as if all H were that way). He should know better considering his line of work. Truth is it can be black positive or red positive depending on year it was made. e.g. built say 1985 it will be black positive, whereas built say 1995 it will be red positive, for the same version. I don't think there's a manufacturing date on the drivers.The 2213H were not only oldies, some were more recent. On a JBL 2010 official price list i have the 2213H was still offered for sale (btw retail $426.) so some might still have been manufactured around those years, or its old stock being let go until depleted.I've attached revisions A (no date) and F (2007), older and newer, that i have of the 4311B Tech Manual. I don't have time to compare diagrams on both, item by item, however there should be a difference somewhere to reflect the black to red positive switch. I know this may not resolve your issue with certainty but you have some context here. On the other hand matching your driver with a mfr date, then matching such with the corresponding revision of the Tech Manual isn't necessarily a piece of cake.However in absence of the date they were made your best bet could be to pull out the drivers and test their actual polarity.Richard
    An excellent post Richard. Thank you heaps for that. Woofer.
    I might be deaf, but I can still hear da bells! (Quasimodo)
    .... Oh, and the Kick Drum.

  14. #29
    Senior Member Woofer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedrock602 View Post
    If the schematic is to be taken at face value, then testing the woofer for polarity and disregarding the color of the binding post seems to be the smart thing to do
    Certainly looks that way. But this raises the question, does this also apply to the mid drivers? Might have to pull mine out and check, but, another day....
    I might be deaf, but I can still hear da bells! (Quasimodo)
    .... Oh, and the Kick Drum.

  15. #30
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Hi woofer,

    Thanks for the good word.

    RE does this also apply to the mid drivers?

    This idea also crossed my mind quickly but i didn't try to keep it since things are already complicated with six revisions of the Tech Manual. At this point i'd say it might look like that.

    However, in a 3-way 12 db/oct crossover the mid driver polarity should already be reversed for proper operation...

    Richard
    POWERED BY: QSC, Ashly, Tascam, Rolls Mosfet, NAD, and Crest Audio

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