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Thread: E 145 Questions

  1. #1
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    E 145 Questions

    I am contemplating a new build this coming year. Putting all my little things aside to focus on something bigger and better.

    My plans had always been cloning one of the big 43XX monitors of yesteryear. While it's still possible, I have been slowly gravitating to the idea of a two way build complimented with a subwoofer.

    This brings me to the E145. I am considering this driver based on a few things. From what I've read, it's got great tone, fast attack and a light cone. Sounds good on paper to me. I've got plenty of 2225/2226 variants in the area popping up, not often the E145. I was a big fan of the 2235 for a while and still am, but worry how high it will play and my reading tells me the E145 is more what I am looking for.

    - How high has the E145 been used? I read it has a peak at about 1750hz that can be nasty so it's not as well behaved up top as some others. Some folk throw the 2123 in there between 145 and compression driver.

    - Am considering something like the 2450SL or similar driver - possibly on a 290hz horn or something similar to allow me full use of the drivers range.

    - Sub would be something like a single (ideally dual) 2242 or 2245 filling in below the E145 in a large box.

    Any suggestions would be great, as I am new to this and just starting to figure out which drivers are any hell. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hello Morton

    I use them in my basement system. Also used an 811C clone as a center for years so I really like that driver. Fast clean and pitch perfect the only issue is re-cone kits. If I were you and have not invested in them yet I would go looking for some 2216's as used in the M2 or at least consider them. At least they should be supported for several years with cone kits. As far as how high well I would say at least 800Hz as in Everest 1 perhaps higher not sure what the crossover was in the 801C coax driver which was an E-145 with a 2425 compression driver.

    Rob

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    I´ve owned both, the 2235 and the E-145.

    My personal experience is, that a 2235 is not much fun in the midrange, even knowing it was used in the 4430 up to 1khz. It works, but the E145 clearly sounds better up that high. The 2235 sounds a little muddy above 300-400hz, even when driven with small signals. Going up in power it gets worse... The E145 sound very precise in the midrange and remains that attribute even at insane levels. I guess this might be the advantage of the underhang design.
    When using the E145 up to 800hz you shouldn´t worry about it peaks at aprox. 1,5khz... But it definatly needs support below 50-60hz!

    I would say this is the point where you have to decide what concept you prefer.
    Using the E145 with a mono sub works great in the midrange to a horn without a midrange cone. But with all the drawbacks of a mono sub. It can be very hard to get a mono sub integrated, be aware! If you have no roomacoustic-treatments it is even more difficult.
    Using the 2235 it gets much easier to achieve a nice sounding bass, as you have two bass-sources spread in your room. But in my opinion you would have to use a midcone (8-10") between the 2235 and a horn.

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    Have you considered the 2234H (2235H without the mass control ring).

    The 2234H has a superior mid band performance and is a faster driver and more sensitive @96 dB.

    It also does not have the Xmax limitations of the E145 and can be EQd in the bass for similar extension of the 2235.

    If you have a 2235H you may wish to remove the mass ring and do some comparison.

    Other members have reported very good results in recent times with this recommendation

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606 View Post
    I use them in my basement system.......
    Hey Rob, what do you use above (below?) your e-145 in your basement system?

    Like Rob, I have UREI monitors with the e-145 woofers (813C). As Dr.db mentioned, they are outstandingly natural sounding through the midrange. I believe the crossover point is approximately 1khz on the UREIs, but have never measured it. I use 2245h subs in 8 cubic foot boxes below them.


    I would imagine a 2 way (plus subwoofer(s)) would sound quite nice based on the tonality of the "C" generation of UREI monitors.

  6. #6
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hey Rob, what do you use above (below?) your e-145 in your basement system?
    Hello Rusty

    I use a pair of 2235's in B-380's clones so little brothers to your 2245's I like the way the 2235 and E-145 sound together. I just don't have the luxury of that much room! That must be quite an intense and effortless low end using 2245's! Those are my stereo subs I also have a pair of 2266's set up for LFE when the system is in surround mode.

    Use the E-145'S from 80 Hz to 300Hz. Above I have 2123's and PTH1010's with 435Be's.

    I would love to get my hands on a pair of stock 811C's. One day!

    Rob
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    Rob, thanks for the picture. Those look great and may give the OP some ideas. I was just looking at an old thread where Zilch posted plots of those waveguides. I understand your use of the midwoofer. http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...rns-Waveguides

    I don't remember seeing any threads by people building 2 ways with e-145s like the OP might be thinking about crossed at 750-800. That isn't a problem for the e-145 but your 3 way has advantages. A single 18" sub under either would probably sound great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rusty jefferson View Post
    Rob, thanks for the picture. Those look great and may give the OP some ideas. I was just looking at an old thread where Zilch posted plots of those waveguides. I understand your use of the midwoofer. http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...rns-Waveguides

    I don't remember seeing any threads by people building 2 ways with e-145s like the OP might be thinking about crossed at 750-800. That isn't a problem for the e-145 but your 3 way has advantages. A single 18" sub under either would probably sound great.

    Here's one stunningly beautiful 3-way that shows off Olafs extremely talented wood-working ( & conceptualization ) capabilities.

    (Click the pic for the link )





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    Thanks Earl I know that build. Beautiful.

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    Senior Señor boputnam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mortron View Post
    I am contemplating a new build this coming year. Putting all my little things aside to focus on something bigger and better.

    My plans had always been cloning one of the big 43XX monitors of yesteryear. While it's still possible, I have been slowly gravitating to the idea of a two way build complimented with a subwoofer.
    If you get the 43XX "right", you won't have much need for a sub woofer - at least that has been my experience with the 4345. The two 2245H do an impeccable job with great tonality (low Q).

    But, that's just my experience - even in a 2.0 Theater night! Boom...

    bo

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  11. #11
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by mortron View Post
    I am contemplating a new build this coming year. Putting all my little things aside to focus on something bigger and better.

    My plans had always been cloning one of the big 43XX monitors of yesteryear. While it's still possible, I have been slowly gravitating to the idea of a two way build complimented with a subwoofer.

    This brings me to the E145. I am considering this driver based on a few things. From what I've read, it's got great tone, fast attack and a light cone. Sounds good on paper to me. I've got plenty of 2225/2226 variants in the area popping up, not often the E145. I was a big fan of the 2235 for a while and still am, but worry how high it will play and my reading tells me the E145 is more what I am looking for.

    - How high has the E145 been used? I read it has a peak at about 1750hz that can be nasty so it's not as well behaved up top as some others. Some folk throw the 2123 in there between 145 and compression driver.

    - Am considering something like the 2450SL or similar driver - possibly on a 290hz horn or something similar to allow me full use of the drivers range.

    - Sub would be something like a single (ideally dual) 2242 or 2245 filling in below the E145 in a large box.

    Any suggestions would be great, as I am new to this and just starting to figure out which drivers are any hell. Thanks.
    The 2235H can be used up to 1000 hertz with a suitable horn. Ie 2344 bi radial horn.

    The E145 can be crossed over at 700-800 hertz to a suitable horn. The large format compression drivers are the preferred candidates.

    It comes down to your expectations.

    But here is the thing.

    In the diy space there are two roads.

    1. You closely follow an existing Jbl factory design and build as close as possible to that specification and you will get a good result. This applies to two way systems with the caveat you can locate the same horns and drivers.

    2. You design and build your own diy loudspeaker project. Unfortunately there is no certainty of the desired outcome and you will probably spend considerable time (years) obtaining a satisfactory result compared to option 1.

    Jbl used this driver in the original Everest with a rather unique horn and it worked quite well. But as mentioned it won’t get you deep bass. So a sub is necessary if you must have deep base.

    The challenge is getting the compression driver and horn to give you the result you will be satisfied with. That is a hit and miss situation for anyone. The other challenge is design of the crossover network. Getting that right is not easy for anyone. You really need a reasonable measurement kit and some specific skills as a starting point. No native horn response is ever ideal and the crossover network needs to account for this. For example horns can have a tilt in the response overall or a hump in the response. You will hear that but you won’t be able to correct it unless you can measure it. If you can measure the horn the next challenge is designing the crossover to work with your drivers. This is quite difficult with a passive crossover network. You might consider a dsp active crossover but getting the desired outcome can be a lengthy process and there are no guarantees.

    This all points back to option 1. Jbl have done all the work for you.

    On the positive side such a system is close to 100 dB sensitivity. It means it won’t need a lot of power and it going to be dynamic as hell. You could use a relatively low power but high quality amp and get a very nice result. Subjectively thus type of system is not as analytical as the multi way Jbl monitors.

    But the multi way monitors have greater linearity in the frequency extremes.

    Something to think about.

  12. #12
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    Why not Onken?

    Two way ported designs are difficult to build. You get other resonances besides the base resonance, the ports will emmit midrange. To minimize the midrange you can make the ports smaller, but then they will sounding bad at high sound pressure.

    I believe that onken is so popular because you don't get pronounced resonances in midrange. I have simulated Onken with the E145 a few days ago and it looks promising. Tuned at 40 Hz, 300 liter box. Having the vents on the back side will diffuse any midrange coming from the vents.

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