Vintage JBL vs New Studio Monitor Series 4429, 4306, etc.

[watchnerd]

Hi all, first time poster here, so please be patient of my JBL ignorance.

After a few decades using Martin Logan electrostats and Dynaudio dynamic speakers, I've decided I want to make a change in my main living room speakers. The change was driven by the purchase of a set of JBL LSR305s for my office. For those not familiar, the LSR305 is an active speaker with a 5" woofer and a soft dome tweeter mounted to a wave guide. While still budget speakers, I was impressed with their performance for the price, particularly their dispersion, soundstaging, and impactful dynamics.

I realized that my current living room speakers have been weak in the areas that JBLs seem to be good: the electrostats have low distortion and great resolution, but limited dynamic impact. The Dynaudios have great tonal balance, good imaging, unfatiguing, but start to sound compressed at higher volumes.

I'm now really interested in getting that JBL sound in my medium sized living room (about 14' x 20', carpeted, concrete slab floor). Analog source is a Michell Gyro SE, Jelco SA-750D, Nagaoka MP-500 feeding a Fi Yph phono stage. Digital is streaming from Roon to AppleTV. Electronics are a Wyred4Sound mPRE (balanced analog preamp plus DAC) and 2 x mAMP (monoblock power amps).

Music is everything: jazz, blues, classical, opera classic rock, some pop or world.

I'm really attracted to both the new studio monitor series (the blues ones sold mostly outside North America) as well as vintage models. Budget for speakers is <$5k.

The 4429 seem really interesting, but wondering if they're too big for my room. Also like the looks of the 4306, might be a better size for my room, but also wondering if they're going to have serious low-end or loudness limits given their size and 2-way nature.

In contrast, there is a bewildering selection of vintage JBLs out there...about which I know very little, other than vague childhood memories from the 1970s-1980s of systems I admired as a kid.

Long prelude aside:

Are the new blue "studio monitors" sold in Europe and Asia regarded as better, similar, or inferior to their vintage counterparts?

And which vintage models should I be looking at for a medium size room?

[hjames]

As you say, there is a huge diverse range of JBL speakers for sale -
one thing to do is decide on a price range you want stay with ...
it makes a lot of difference if you are looking at under $6000 speakers,
or if you include the Everest and higher models ...

Can we presume you are staying with 2 channel systems?

[watchnerd]

As you say, there is a huge diverse range of JBL speakers for sale -
one thing to do is decide on a price range you want stay with ...
it makes a lot of difference if you are looking at under $6000 speakers,
or if you include the Everest and higher models ...

Can we presume you are staying with 2 channel systems?

Yes, staying with 2 channels.

Budget would be $2k - $5k. That being said, some of the more expensive models might be too large for the room.

[Mr. Widget]

That being said, some of the more expensive models might be too large for the room.

Do you mean aesthetically? I have a pair of DD66000s in a room approximately the same size as yours.

Visually, they certainly make their presence known. Sonically they fit in just right.


Widget

[watchnerd]

Do you mean aesthetically? I have a pair of DD66000s in a room approximately the same size as yours.

Visually, they certainly make their presence known. Sonically they fit in just right.


Widget

Certainly aesthetically and wife-factor-wise, I wouldn't be able to get away with something that size.

Also, the DD66000 is out of my price, I believe.

[Ed Zeppeli]

Below is a thread comparing the 4430 to the Array 1400 (new versus old as per your thread title). Have a look see for a wide variety of opinions on the subject. Also, have you considered the L300? There is at least one nice pair for sale here by one of our members.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...-vs-1400-Array


http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ct-Marketplace


Cheers,

Warren

[watchnerd]

Below is a thread comparing the 4430 to the Array 1400 (new versus old as per your thread title). Have a look see for a wide variety of opinions on the subject. Also, have you considered the L300? There is at least one nice pair for sale here by one of our members.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...-vs-1400-Array


http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ct-Marketplace


Cheers,

Warren

Thanks for the links, I'll check those out, especially the 4430/4425 is one of the vintage models that has caught my interest.

As for the L300...I hadn't heard of that at all. It looks huge from the pictures! What are its best features?

[Ed Zeppeli]

Thanks for the links, I'll check those out, especially the 4430/4425 is one of the vintage models that has caught my interest.

As for the L300...I hadn't heard of that at all. It looks huge from the pictures! What are its best features?

The L300 is similar to any JBL Pro or high end consumer speaker system in size that has a 15" woofer. It's probably about a 5 cubic foot box. As for it's best features I'm not too sure other than it is highly coveted as a top of the line consumer loudspeaker from its era for a multitude of reasons.


Best of luck in your quest,

Warren

[Ian Mackenzie]

You will find a review of the 4429 by other forum members using the search function

The newer blue baffle series have the characteristic JBL house sound but are high resolution than the earlier vintage designs by virtue of improvement in driver design and technology.

If you can find an Array system second hand (consumer) they are excellent in terms of resolution and sound stage.

The L300 is fun to listen to but its challenged design wise to compare to a modern JBL blue baffle monitor.

The JBL sound has always been about the drivers.

But the horns (JBL now uses wave guides with carefully controlled directivity ) and crossover network design has vastly improved over the past decade and this had trickled down into the more affordable systems.

[Mr. Widget]

Certainly aesthetically and wife-factor-wise, I wouldn't be able to get away with something that size.

Also, the DD66000 is out of my price, I believe.

Understood on the size concerns, I was using the DD66000s to make the point that even seemingly huge JBLs can perform well in a more typical sized room.

Many here are using JBLs using 15" woofers... I doubt any will fit your requirements. The 12" based 4429 may work, but I would strongly suggest you look into the smaller Array series. Either the 800 Array with a sub, or the 1000 Array.

http://www.jblsynthesis.com/productd...800-array.html

http://www.jblsynthesis.com/productd...000-array.html

These speakers are a little unusual looking, but they sound amazing. The Array Series will also be discontinued soon, so bargains will be available and then they will become difficult to find.


Widget

[watchnerd]

You will find a review of the 4429 by other forum members using the search function

The newer blue baffle series have the characteristic JBL house sound but are high resolution than the earlier vintage designs by virtue of improvement in driver design and technology.

If you can find an Array system second hand (consumer) they are excellent in terms of resolution and sound stage.

The L300 is fun to listen to but its challenged design wise to compare to a modern JBL blue baffle monitor.

The JBL sound has always been about the drivers.

But the horns (JBL now uses wave guides with carefully controlled directivity ) and crossover network design has vastly improved over the past decade and this had trickled down into the more affordable systems.

Thanks for your great overview.

Were the bi-radial designs an evolutionary side path? It seems that after the 10+ year run of 4430/4425, JBL stopped making bi-radial horns. Was it a technological dead end?

[Ian Mackenzie]

They were actually in production for a long time

JBL has progressively moved in term of refining the bi radial horn.

The 2344/a bi radial was a 100x 100 dispersion horn

Great for studios but not always the best design for domestic use.

But JBL use of the term studio monitor is a marketing name sake for brand recognition that has l think blurred the line in terms of selecting a loudspeaker that will perform well in a domestic environment as opposed to a recording studio.

A true monitor is for critical evaluation of the recording process. It's use in the home can render many recordings un playable!

Oddly enough JBL sold more of the now vintage 4343 monitors into Japan consumer than anywhere else. It has an almost God or cult status in that market. They feature in jazz bars in Tokyo, some powered by massive Pass Labs Aleph 4 SE class A amplifiers.

So as time went on JBL made more conventional shaped horns with a modified diffraction throat 80 x 60/30 dispersion for consumer. But they also went off the reservation with designs like the Everest 55000 horn and the vertical Arrays horns.

Fortunately Greg Timbers was an innovative and persuasive engineer.

Unfortunately he is no longer with JBL.

The most recent advance is the M2 waveguide for studio use that is close to 100 x 100 dispersion.

Modified versions of this design are starting to appear in consumer systems and other monitors such as the 4367.

[srm51555]

A true monitor is for critical evaluation of the recording process. It's use in the home can render many recordings un playable! .

Agree

[watchnerd]

Agree

That actually doesn't bother me, as I'm a hobbyist / volunteer recording engineer in my spare time. I'm accustomed to this.

I don't have any recordings that are both so bad, and so important to me, that I would pick a speaker just to make them sound better. If it really gets bad enough, I can always apply EQ or even tube roll.

[rdgrimes]

One of the first things I noticed about my Array 1400 is that even the worst sounding content was easier to listen to. Crappy MP3 and hyper-compressed CDs alike sounded better. Its a phenomenon I did not expect. I would not say the same thing about some vintage and pro gear.