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Thread: JBL 2360 Compression Driver?

  1. #121
    Member oks81's Avatar
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    Could probably go a little lower with the crossover yes.

    I have not measured how loud....
    Loud enough

    For the bass yes could go with drivers with higher mms.
    As I say, it`s not that big this system, it`s only two 15" midbasses.
    So probably som guys would prefer something more in the bass section.

    I have in my room ok level to about 25hz.

    The boxes size are built for that they will fit these basses mentioned in this thread:
    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...classics/page3
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  2. #122
    Member oks81's Avatar
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    One of the 2405 got broken
    So bought a pair of JMLC 1400 and Celestion CDX1-1430 as backward ambient tweeters.

    Also have done som work with DEQX and got a nice crossover at 500hz between woofers and 2360.

    Name:  JBL2360 TAD4002 JMLC1400 CelestionCDX1-1430 JBL2220 JBL2227.jpg
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  3. #123
    Member oks81's Avatar
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    Reconed a pair of E140.
    Used black gaskets and black dustcap.
    Playing with them now

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  4. #124
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Nice work!

    Do you still consider them as "E140" without alu dustcap, or what else?

  5. #125
    Member oks81's Avatar
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    Thank`s

    The alu dustcap maybe has some kind of ringing very high in frequency?
    I use the bass up to 600hz, so don`t think there is any difference with the paper black dustcap.

    E140 is probably some of the bether drivers of the old JBL generation to use in home audio.
    When got the baskets I looked at all the drivers that can be reconed into same SFG basket.
    2225, 2234, 2235 and E130 cone kit will fit.

    The 2225 has a bit low Vas for what I wanted. It also has an alu voicecoil former that lowers Qms.
    The 2234 also has alu VC former. The foam surround probably bether these days maybe, but I prefer cloth surround.
    E130 is extreme, but the equal hight voicecoil/gap will probably give high distortion very fast when used in bassreflex.
    The E140 has kapton VC former that give it Qms=5. It has what I will call "ok" Xmax with 3mm.

    Smaller the voicecoil, bether the sound, but shorter the stroke

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  6. #126
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    How does LF sound? Satisfied with the "hybrid" E140 results?

    I prefer cloth surround also for their very long life, and today cloth can provide even larger excursions than foam did in the past. Less foam drivers in the JBL Pro lineup in recent years, and i won't complain about this.

    Alu dustcap extends driver response higher but you don't need it in your LF application, so not a problem.

    Home audio usage of E140 is unconventional for an MI driver but as they say what works, works, since you use only the driver's bottom part.

    Some E140 T/S (Fs, Qts and Vas for example) are comparable to those of the 2205H i have, but you have a stronger motor.

    Low Qts drivers like E140, 2205, 2220, etc. have a reputation of having nice transient response, and i agree with that, the main reason i kept the 2205 so long is simply i like its sound, its a fast driver.

    I assume it is the same for your E140 and 2220 combo. As i recall, it may be the first time i see the E140 used as bottom end to a 2220. Its a different application than mainstream, and may explains my curiosity. You sort of open a new door with this idea.

    Nice audio setup you have, and like your Avatar picture, its fun. Regards,

    Richard

  7. #127
    Member oks81's Avatar
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    Glad you like the setup!
    I`m happy with it and play a lot of music!

    Oh! So you have the 2205! Thats nice!
    The specs are not far from mine E140.
    I actually looked for 2205 recone kit to put in my E140 baskets, but it seems the only sell 2225 kit as replacement.

    I`m quite happy with the LF from E140.
    Of course as it is low Qts it needs EQ from DSP.
    But it`s no problem as the low Qts comes from low Qes.
    If having a passive crossed system, Qes can be raised by putting resistors in series.

    Of course if playing loud, and used also for LF, these short stroke 15" drivers the 2nd, 3rd and THD will be high.
    But 2nd and 3rd harmonic are ear friendly.

    The real enemy that sucks life out of music is intermodulation distortion.
    These high flux and short VC (low Le) are bether at intermodulation distortion than example JBL 2226.
    2226 has lower flux, bigger coil and gets higher Le.
    I can`t get 2226 to sparkle and shine in the midrange.

    If wanting something more, even higher flux and shorting rings on these old drivers would be nice
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  8. #128
    Member oks81's Avatar
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    Well..
    Got som GPA 515 LF
    So E140 on top and GPA 515 in the lower boxes.

    Name:  GPA 515 LF JBL E140 JBL 2360.jpg
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  9. #129
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    Nice. Which model 515 did you get? 515B, 515-8C, 515-8G, etc.

    And you didn't have to retune the enclosures you're using going from E140 to 515?

  10. #130
    Member oks81's Avatar
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    Thanks

    It is the GPA 515 LF 16ohm with ferrite magnet.
    No, I have note retuned in any way, I just changed setting in DEQX DSP.

    E140 is 8ohm, but putting 5ohm resistor in series with it increases Qes and Qts.

    So it simulates lik this:

    Name:  Simulering Winisd JBL E140 GPA 515.jpg
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    Green is E140 with 5ohm resistor in series.
    Yellow is GPA 515.
    Orange is E140 without resistor, it should be 5-6dB higher in the simulation.
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  11. #131
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    The way i understand it you down tune your LF enclosures and make up for the lost bass response (about -10db at 30hz) with DEQX DSP settings?

    Since the 515 is 16 ohm and you added a series resistor to the 8 ohm E140 then i assume you might be driving both woofer pairs in parallel considering the new E140 impedance?

    The 5 ohm series resistor with the E140 should also increase resistance and therefore reduce driver sensitivity. Have you had issues in matching the sensitivity of an LF pair vs the other LF pair, and then both LF pairs vs the horns, even though you're probably using active xo? The question comes to mind in view of the following.

    The E140 has rated sensitivity of 100 db/1w/1m, measured 500-2500hz (rather high), 4.9% efficiency (5% = 99 db, per Eargle).

    The Altec 515 LF such numbers are 99-102 db at 4' depending on box used (add 1.7 db for distance correction to 1 m, so 100.7-103.7 db corrected), measured 100-1000 hz, 6.7% efficiency (6.3% = 100 db, closest per Eargle).

    Therefore not a direct sensitivity comparison specially in view of your usage (LF cabs) and the E140 higher range measurement than usual for a bass driver. I assume you might have set the levels by ear or a sound level meter?

  12. #132
    Member oks81's Avatar
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    Correct, the boxes are tuned to 28hz, so extra bass adjusted in DEQX.

    Yes, the 5ohm resistor takes down the voltage sensitivity on the E140 (8ohm) so it`s more comparable to the 515 (16ohm).
    Have only used Winisd simulation to find resistor value and calculated Re, Qes and Qts and to get about the same bass responce.

    Both basses are connected to the same amp.
    Wish to have all four bass of same brand, but I don`t so use what I have

    There is probably still some difference between the E140 and 515 but I have not measured.
    Your calculations seems correct!


    Crossover between basses and horn is active in DEQX.
    DEQX has dipswitches for gain adjustment, the horn is 8dB down by switches.
    The rest is corrected by the automatic adjustment in DEQX.

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    Use setting 4 (second highest) for bass output and setting 1 (lowest) for the horn, if I remember correct..
    Both amplifiers have the same gain, about 27dB.
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  13. #133
    Senior Member RMC's Avatar
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    RE "Wish to have all four bass of same brand, but I don`t so use what I have"

    Nothing wrong in using what you have, its still a nice system. I think i saw before in your cabs 2220 and 2227? Plus now E140 and 515. That's a good woofer assortment. Personnaly like the idea of trying different things, not limiting myself to one brand or model.

    RE "There is probably still some difference between the E140 and 515 but I have not measured."

    Each speaker has its own "personnality" so differences would be normal. One question keeps coming back in my mind and maybe you have or not mentioned this before.

    Have you tried the E140 pair alone with the horns? Also the 515 pair alone with the horns? Similar sound? Which do you prefer and why? Plus when you drive both LF pairs together with the horns, does one LF pair seems to stand out a little more than the other?

    RE "Correct, the boxes are tuned to 28hz, so extra bass adjusted in DEQX."

    I have some interesting material about cab stacking and down tuning/EQ as you do. There's a little known side effect to this. I will post that in the near future in my own BGW thread, so it won't be highjacking your thread.

    But first need to finalize a post due soon in my BGW thread about Scandinavian horn tweeters. Then box stacking etc. issues will follow...

  14. #134
    Member oks81's Avatar
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    Yes, one pair of each: 2220, 2227, E140 and GPA 515.

    No I have not tried one pair alone.
    Can`t really tell any big difference between them, except the 2220 is the most efficient.
    The easiest to tell difference is looking at specs, measure close up and have control of bass curve.


    I think using EQ is bether then using heavier woofers. Interesting if you now of any side effects.
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  15. #135
    Senior Member Eaulive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oks81 View Post
    The 2225 has a bit low Vas for what I wanted. It also has an alu voicecoil former that lowers Qms.
    Well, no. The 2225 has the same material former as the E140 (Kapton?) I've reconed enough to know that, no offense.
    I think the only difference between the E140 and the 2225 is a longer voice coil for the 2225 and an aluminum dustcap for the E-140.
    My avatar: 4520 loaded with 2225H on E140 frames,
    1x 2202H on custom front loaded horn, 2x 2426 on 2370.

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