JBL L220 and JBL LE14A/LE14H/LE14H-1 Variations

[dinoboom]

Dear Friends. hope all is well...

I have a nice Vintage pair of JBL L220 speaker systems. The LE14H's were re-foamed as were the passive radiators. Resistance is 6.1/3 to 6.6 respectively for the LE14H's. One System has slightly more bass and is clearer sounding. I believe it's a problem with the voice coil and not the re-foaming or where they rest. I'm considering replacing the LE14H with the LE14A.
Are these compatible as in.. could I use one LE14H in one system and a LE14A in the other system without compromising sound quality/differences? I see in the Schematic JBL diagrams that if the LE14A non serviceable the LE14H is acceptable replacement. Other than magnet materials what are the differences in the LE14A/LE14H/LE14H-1 or any other variations of the LE14 series? Any other suggestions would be welcomed in order to get these system to meet or exceed there design specs. I'm also aware that all the components in the crossovers are suspect to change in value over time that could affect the sound and that their tolerances are different ±10-20%. As far as re-coning these with JBL re cone kits C8RLE14A at this time this is not financially feasible. Does anyone out there have replacements that are priced reasonably. I need some help sorting this out. Thank you in advance for your care, cooperation and attention to this important sensitive matter. Sincerely, Raffaele

[audiomagnate]

I've seen where they recommend replacing both drivers if matching of the replacement is critical and they don't here, so you should be fine. The difference you're hearing between the two speakers may not be caused by the woofers. It might be their location in the room or something else. The measurements seem fine.

[dinoboom]

Dear Friend aka audiomagnate, Thank YOU for making the time to reply and express your thoughts and concerns.
I do not believe this has a thing to do with speaker placement. If it's not in the voice coil in that LE14H then it would most likely have something to do with the crossovers. I suspect though it is VC related and I'm not going to spend $300 plus to get one speaker re coned only to find out the other sounds different.
I can live with a little difference, but this is more than that IMHO. I would not want anyone to have to settle for something in this case "sound quality" that I myself could not find acceptable...it would not be fair to JBL or the listener.

Perhaps someone else can shed some additional light on this matter and discuss the exact differences in the various LE14 models. Considered to be one of the finest low end drivers ever made.

Blessings, from Vermont
Raffaele

[Odd]

You can see from ts parameters LE14a and LE14h are not equal.
The crossover is the same in L220 (Le14A and L220A (LE14H)
JBL recommends replacing both.

[Titanium Dome]

Mark Gander, the system engineer from the L220/222, will be at the Third Annual Lansing Heritage Awards this year in Los Angeles.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...l=1#post360719

[dinoboom]

You can see from ts parameters LE14a and LE14h are not equal.
The crossover is the same in L220 (Le14A and L220A (LE14H)
JBL recommends replacing both.

Dear Friend, obviously I'm not an engineer. Where I read the major differences are with the QMS, EFF, PE, XMAX. Which of these parameters should the average person/consumer/listener be most concerned with and which ones would affect the sound quality the most?

In the the JBL Technical Manual L220/L222 Disco. As I read that I was left with the impression that these speakers were interchangeable with negligible differences in sound. Obviously, it would be nice to replace or rebuild them with matching voice coils [D.C. resistance Ohms] and matching sequential serial numbers...that is not the case here.


So, somehow I need to make the best possible choices considering financial limitations for one thing. And actually how much difference am I really going to be able to hear/detect with the human ear between a pair of L220's with one LE14H and one LE14A?


Further,what does the LE14H-1 [one] signify? Is that yet another variation in the design of this model?

I have spoke with both the Pro JBL and Consumer JBL divisions and I'm still confused whether these drivers will work well enough in the L220's? The consumer group initially located in India I think? told me the actual size of the cones were different in terms of inches.


The thing that happened apparently is that the consumer was able to buy and install the re cone kits, but so many were being done improperly that JBL decided it had to be done through a dealer. Which tacks on a minimum $100.00 in addition to the re cone kit itself which hovers around $186.00 and change. This would not include the shipping costs and the risk of shipping them and possible misalignment of the magnet which would be a death blow to the driver/speaker is my understanding. For me your talking a minimum of a 152-173 kilometers one way to get to the nearest "authorized" JBL speaker repair center.


With this additional information would you be so kind as to share with me the best and worst case scenarios for this situation? And how I could possible make the best of what's practical and affordable. While still being able to maintain a reasonably good end result listening and reliability wise..


Thank you in advance for your care, cooperation and attention to all matters in the important sensitive subject.


Sincerely, Raffaele

[dinoboom]

Mark Gander, the system engineer from the L220/222, will be at the Third Annual Lansing Heritage Awards this year in Los Angeles.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...l=1#post360719

Thanks for the tip! Mark sounds like he's the "man" for JBL. I'd love to attend the Awards and ask Mark a few questions. Before that can happen I need to find the resources/information to get the L220's back into a "healthy" state again.

Sincerely, Raffaele

[Odd]

You will get audible difference by mixing.
I do not know where you are located, but the best might be and find two LE 14A on ebay.
They come up quite often in the U.S..

[dinoboom]

You will get audible difference by mixing. ​How much???
I do not know where you are located, but the best might be and find two LE 14A on ebay.
They come up quite often in the U.S..

I've looked on eBay. There's no guarantee they would sound the same either assuming they make it to me in one piece?
Your saying "buy in pairs" who's to say those were made equally unless the serial numbers are sequential and made by the same person and even then? From the speaker re coning folks that I've spoke with that do it for a living...They have told me it's almost impossible to find exact matching voice coils for example.
Are you telling me that the LE14A's are superior to the LE14H's which originally came in my L220's? if that's the case JBL should repair and or replace these LE14H's at no charge. JBL Pro seemed to think the "major" differences was in the magnet materials. JBL Consumer didn't have a sufficient answer. In limbo...

Sincerely, Raffaele


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-Vintage-JBL-LE-LE14A-14-Woofer-Low-Frequency-Alnico-Excellent-Surrounds-/221289134893?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item33 85dc3b2d


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Pair-JBL-LE14A-8-Ohms-Signature-Alnico-Woofer-Speaker-Matched-Serial-/131162673857?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item1e 89e792c1


These must of come over on the Mayflower
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-JB...item4864b8c568


These are 16 Ohms
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-JBL-...item1e89f0dd9c

[Titanium Dome]

Thanks for the tip! Mark sounds like he's the "man" for JBL. I'd love to attend the Awards and ask Mark a few questions. Before that can happen I need to find the resources/information to get the L220's back into a "healthy" state again.

Sincerely, Raffaele

The L220 Emperor is Steve Gonzales who used to be a member here. One of his decimated threads is here.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...highlight=L220

Steve did some amazing work, and his departure from LH was a loss. I will contact him to see if he's open to communicating with you.

[Odd]

I make a suggestion for a cheap solution.
I do not mean A is better than H.
You want the best you have to go for reconing, or find two LE 14H-1

[dinoboom]

The L220 Emperor is Steve Gonzales who used to be a member here. One of his decimated threads is here.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...highlight=L220

Steve did some amazing work, and his departure from LH was a loss. I will contact him to see if he's open to communicating with you.

That would be awesome! Thank you!!! Any help or suggestions always welcomed and greatly appreciated.

Keep me posted pleeze

Raffaele

[Robh3606]

The L220/222 uses weights on the passive radiators to tune the bass. Make sure that there are weights on both passive radiators and they have the same size and weight washers used. Differences in weights of absence of the washers will de-tune the system so the bass will change.

As far as the differeces Le-14H white cone Le-14H-1 black cone. All of them Le14A,H, or H3 will work in the same cabinets but if you change them do it in pairs.

Rob

[dinoboom]

The L220/222 uses weights on the passive radiators to tune the bass. Make sure that there are weights on both passive radiators and they have the same size and weight washers used. Differences in weights of absence of the washers will de-tune the system so the bass will change.

As far as the differeces Le-14H white cone Le-14H-1 black cone. All of them Le14A,H, or H3 will work in the same cabinets but if you change them do it in pairs.

Rob

Thanks so much for your time and considerations. Great information...
Well, what's the worst case scenario if I did run one LE14H (which are the original woofers that came in the system) and one LE14A in the other L220?

It's sort of mysterious this difference in sound that I'm hearing from one system to the next in overall "total" clarity and tonality. The bass being richer and overall clarity better. It has to be something with the voice coil in one of the LE14H's...

I'm working on a pair of obtaining LE14A's. One has been re-foamed and the other one hasn't been for an unknown reason. The seller I believe is honest and just wants to find a good home for the L220's drivers/passive radiators and x-overs. There was something about the midrange with the L220's not having enough finesse for his liking. So, he is parting out the remains of the L220 to a good home.

Your thoughts about "ALL" this? I have heard from others about doing this in pairs..I'm not against that and understand the theory. It comes down to how much more time and money do I want to invest in these systems!?! I do not have a "bottomless" bank account or rich relatives.


Sincerely yours, Raffaele

[dinoboom]

Thanks so much for your time and considerations. Great information...
Well, what's the worst case scenario if I did run one LE14H (which are the original woofers that came in the system) and one LE14A in the other L220?

It's sort of mysterious this difference in sound that I'm hearing from one system to the next in overall "total" clarity and tonality. The bass being richer and overall clarity better. It has to be something with the voice coil in one of the LE14H's...

I'm working on a pair of obtaining LE14A's. One has been re-foamed and the other one hasn't been for an unknown reason. The seller I believe is honest and just wants to find a good home for the L220's drivers/passive radiators and x-overs. There was something about the midrange with the L220's not having enough finesse for his liking. So, he is parting out the remains of the L220 to a good home.

Your thoughts about "ALL" this? I have heard from others about doing this in pairs..I'm not against that and understand the theory. It comes down to how much more time and money do I want to invest in these systems!?! I do not have a "bottomless" bank account or rich relatives.


Sincerely yours, Raffaele

Here are some screenshots for your interest..