Symmetrical charged coupled crossovers

[Orgi1]

Good Morning!

Here speaks Georg from Germany and i wanted to ask, if anybody have some experiences with symmetrical charged coupled crossovers.
Last Month i have done mi first cc-crossover, and the way from ccc to sccc is not long...


Regards to a very interesting Forum!
Georg

[Orgi1]

Hi people!
Today I feed the discussion with a little food. The example of the midrange branch of JBL4345 I show what I mean. Has anyone ever seen something like this? A Balanced crossover sounds even better, and does not need a capacitor more than the CCC switch. Only inductors and resistors are required in slightly higher numbers. So if we already build a battery-charged crossover, then this can also be practically the same structure symmetrical with battery too.

[fpitas]

Balanced circuitry is better at rejecting noise, but what advantage does it offer here? Lots of extra parts involved. Is there distortion cancellation, such as in push-pull stages?

[Orgi1]

Mathematically, there are no differences at all. Sonically, however, they are there - between the normal crossover and the symmetric there are differences. But my idea was a special: if we already use the CC-Crossover, THEN is the difference to the symmetrical-CCC not a big one.

[Orgi1]

Balanced circuitry is better at rejecting noise, but what advantage does it offer here? Lots of extra parts involved. Is there distortion cancellation, such as in push-pull stages?

I have absolutely no idea what the technical foundation is that speakers sounds better with symmetrical crossover. If anyone can help, please let us know what could be the basis for this circumstances.


And pls. My english not a good one - so if anyone find's a mistake, please make a note! Thanks!

[fpitas]

Your English is perfectly understandable so far.

Distortion measurements on each circuit would help understand why there might be an audible difference. I'll state the obvious, that simulations often don't tell the complete story.

[Orgi1]

PSpice is a program with which I draw circuit diagrams.
The fact that it converts the frequency responses congruent, gives me the confidence that I have the circuit properly implemented by asymmetrically to balanced.

You are totally right when you say that a simulation does not show all circumstances. I do rework speaker for the last 10 years. Our Team and I hear daily of the developed results, so that we can say very good if there are changes. However, unfortunately Listening clarifies not, in what way or why something has changed .

[just4kinks]

Have you run a transient analysis? I would like to see the FFT. I suspect the improvement will not be as dramatic as the step up to CC, but I'm interested.

[Orgi1]

The simulation (transient or frequency response) does not bring any insights as only ideal components are present. The losses in the components are not mathematically writable.

So we only have the possibility to listen to the Speakers with S-CCC or with CCC. Only this is to be used for the results. And now, at this time, we are at the same place of my first Thread.... 'are there any experiences about...'

[Orgi1]

Has anyone ever thought about to replace the battery against any other voltage generation? A high voltage transformer could help. There need not be 5000 volts yes, 30 would be enough. Which can be realized with high impedance, so that it may not change the music signal from the amplifier. Then you do not change a battery when it should ever be empty.


What do you think about?

[fpitas]

There might be an improvement from the higher voltage, although you could achieve that also by placing a few batteries in series. There's essentially no current draw, so the batteries will last for their shelf life. In their defense, batteries are very quiet electrically, simple, and inexpensive.

[Earl K]

Hi Georg,

The very first version of Charge Coupling ( I believe was used in the S9500 ) & was 18V ( using 2 , 9V batteries ) .

The latest development ( applied in a few of the horn circuits ) is to apply a much lower voltage than the stock 9 volts .

This lower voltage is derived from the movement of the woofer . A diode ( & an isolation resistor ) form the circuit for this style of DC biasing ( the diode allows voltage in / but not out ) . I've never tried it / but ( IME ) it may sound nicer that the stock circuit .

I myself, prefer the sound of DC biased caps after the constant drive ( battery ) has been removed from the circuit ( allowing the caps holding the DC charge to "float" above the reference ground / it's a subtle, but important difference to my ears ) . I typically use around only 2-3 volts .

[Orgi1]

Good morning Earl!
This is an interesting idea - i will try it an report here!
Thank you!

[Orgi1]

Hi folks!
Today i will report a little bit of my experiences to the ccc-networks "without" a battery.

I have build a network like "ordinary" ccc-networks (symmetric-ccc's we will do later). Then i used a high-voltage-cascode, for generating voltages up to 25 - 35Volt from the Musicpower of the amplifier. No external Battery or Voltage-Source are used.

Then i hooked up a voltage-display, so i can "listen and see", what amount of voltage we get with normal music (not very loud, in German we say "Zimmerlautstärke").

First seconds of music the voltage is below one Volt. Than, up to a minute, the voltage increases up to 1 - 1.5 Volt. Below this mark the Sound is more smooth than without any voltage, but above one Volt the music is changing from smooth to a little more crisp, but without loosing the smoothnes. Then, during 30 minutes of listening to the Music, the voltage rises up to more than 10 Volt. Above 13 Volt the music-performance also change a little bit. Then the clarity and perfection of the reproduction gets more "live"-feeling. Below this 12-13 Volts the Music ist very bright and clear and dry, but above all of the positiv properties retained, but the sound is more live, more plausible.

I would be very interested in your Experiences! Please report, if you want to kindly share your experiences to me and all the others here.
thanks!
Georg

[Orgi1]

Nobody is interested in this fascinating subject? The CCC-user would listen to the music and not reading to find out how to improve the sound of their speakers yet, right?