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Thread: almost full range enclosure for guitar build advice E140/E110/2213

  1. #1
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    almost full range enclosure for guitar build advice E140/E110/2213

    Hi, first post here but I have read many many screenfulls from this great forum.

    I've been playing around with different speaker combos for my guitar performances. I make a very full range sound, with pitched down bass frequencies, and even vocals running through the system, all running through a 120W Laney valve (tube) PA from 1969 which makes a sound I'm very happy with.

    I started out with E120s which I love (I still have four) but the bass just isn't there, so I reinforced with an E140 in a non-ideal 1x15. It's okay for now, but there's major efficiency mismatches, so I'm running the E140 on 8Ω and E120s in a pair on 16Ω to compensate for the efficiency mismatch.

    It's okay but I'd like to design a proper cab for shows, followed up with a second for bigger shows or when i want to work in stereo, which i sometimes do. So I'm thinking, can I combine the E140 with an E110 with a crossover and forget about having HF drivers as it's not really important for the sound I make? Looking at the specs, these two would seem to work okay in combo. What do others think?

    I note the JBL full ranges for keyboard etc (Cabaret series for example) usually twin an 18" with a 10" or a 15" with an 8". Also, I'm having trouble locating an E110. Would a more available 2123 do the job? it matches the E140 in efficiency (101db to 100db). In building my cabinet i'll need to box around the 10" driver within the cabinet, is that right?

    Many thanks,Toby

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    Why not D130/K130/E130? Should get you some more bass extension compared to E120.

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    hi, well, I did think about that but i've had some trouble finding a 130 for decent money or in decent condition. i also already have the E140, so would be good to find a good gainful employment for it.

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    Almost full range concept

    Hi, and welcome to the forum.

    The full range pro speaker cabinet is very popular now and many 2-way and 3-way configurations are on the market. These are particularly popular as bass guitar cabinets. Slap bass style produces some extended frequencies, higher and lower, so this configuration works. With an E-140 you can build a good one. However, bass cabinets/speakers tend to resist break up and are generally considered too clean for many guitarists playing electric/distortion. If you are playing acoustic electric, it might work. What do you want it to do?

    Using a small mid 6", 8" or 10 inch will bring some good highs for the guitar, but will not will not necessarily give you the crystal clear vocals of a horn. If its not enough, that's where the 3-way comes in. But that may be too much for the guitar. You are potentially looking at trade-offs here. If the speaker is behind you, feedback could become an issue. You could check out a 2-way bass cabinet at your local music shop to see if this is what you really want.


    For building: the mid driver should be in a separate box within the speaker. The exact size depends on the crossover point between the low and mid driver, but they are generally less than 1 cubic foot. Have you used WINISD? The cubic volume for the mid box must be subtracted from the overall box volume to give the correct volume for the low driver. High pass and low pass filters would be a good idea to keep things clean.

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    Almost full range concept

    Hi, and welcome to the forum.

    The full range pro speaker cabinet is very popular now and many 2-way and 3-way configurations are on the market. These are particularly popular as bass guitar cabinets. Slap bass style produces some extended frequencies, higher and lower, so this configuration works. With an E-140 you can build a good one. However, bass cabinets/speakers tend to resist break up and are generally considered too clean for many guitarists playing electric/distortion. If you are playing acoustic electric, it might work. What do you want it to do?

    Using a small mid 6", 8" or 10 inch will bring some good highs for the guitar, but will not will not necessarily give you the crystal clear vocals of a horn. If its not enough, that's where the 3-way comes in. But that may be too much for the guitar. You are potentially looking at trade-offs here. If the speaker is behind you, feedback could become an issue. You could check out a 2-way bass cabinet at your local music shop to see if this is what you really want.


    For building: the mid driver should be in a separate box within the speaker. The exact size depends on the crossover point between the low and mid driver, but they are generally less than 1 cubic foot. Have you used WINISD? The cubic volume for the mid box must be subtracted from the overall box volume to give the correct volume for the low driver. High pass and low pass filters would be a good idea to keep things clean.

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    Senior Member macaroonie's Avatar
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    All you had to do was ask

    Hi Parker Knoll , I have a New old Stock E110 in minty minty nick and a very old D130 (Alnico ) in almost minty nick. Send me a PM if you are interested and we can work something out.
    I'm in Scotland so there may well be export duty.

    Welcome to the forum .... Mac

    PS Now that I think about it , you need this for a live sound application , I have a ready made box that will suit your needs perfectly. M

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    I'm in Scotland so there may well be export duty.
    So Scotland separated from UK! Very clever to introduce taxes on your own population for exporting to England :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldcountryJim View Post
    Hi, and welcome to the forum.

    The full range pro speaker cabinet is very popular now and many 2-way and 3-way configurations are on the market. These are particularly popular as bass guitar cabinets. Slap bass style produces some extended frequencies, higher and lower, so this configuration works. With an E-140 you can build a good one. However, bass cabinets/speakers tend to resist break up and are generally considered too clean for many guitarists playing electric/distortion. If you are playing acoustic electric, it might work. What do you want it to do?
    I'm not too worried about speaker distortion. The E120s i use at the moment don't distort, but sound better with amp overdrive than D120Fs in my opinion. It's a not a classic rock sound I'm after.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldcountryJim View Post

    Using a small mid 6", 8" or 10 inch will bring some good highs for the guitar, but will not will not necessarily give you the crystal clear vocals of a horn. If its not enough, that's where the 3-way comes in. But that may be too much for the guitar. You are potentially looking at trade-offs here. If the speaker is behind you, feedback could become an issue. You could check out a 2-way bass cabinet at your local music shop to see if this is what you really want.
    I just put vocals through when i absolutely have to - like last Thursday for example - so it's not core. usually i can run them through the PA. Also i can always EQ the guitar and voice. Everything runs through a small mixer.

    The high mids on the E120 are already pretty good for guitar but the E110 should give a little more high extension.

    Quote Originally Posted by macaroonie View Post
    Hi Parker Knoll , I have a New old Stock E110 in minty minty nick and a very old D130 (Alnico ) in almost minty nick. Send me a PM if you are interested and we can work something out.
    I'm in Scotland so there may well be export duty.
    Great, will send you a PM. no duties between Scotland and England... yet

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    does anyone know where i can find specs as to how big the box should be for the E110 or 2123? imagining we are building a ported box for the E140 and then a separate box within it for the E110?

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    Senior Member Baron030's Avatar
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    Hi
    I crunched the numbers in WinISD for a JBL E-110 and the closed box volume should be 0.437 cubic feet. (QTC = 0.702) Now, this is a net internal volume. So you will need to add a little volume for what is taken up by the driver itself, any bracing and/or glue cleats. Since you are not absolutely sure which driver you are going to use, you could go a littler larger, maybe even as large as a full cubic foot. But, since you are using this as a midrange driver the exact enclosure volume is not as critical as say a bass reflex enclosure for a woofer. What does come into play is the enclosure shape. One school of thought is to go with a tube shaped enclosure or you can go with a box made with non-parallel walls. In any case, the box should be filled with fiberglass to add dampening. Cardboard concrete forms can be used to make a tube shaped enclosure.

    Baron030

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    great, thank you.

    I have one more question if anyone can help. I may have found a cab of roughly the right volume but not the same dimensions as JBL recommends. Specifically, it's shallower but squarer. Is this ok if i'm running the right amount of cubic feet or is my sound going to suffer in some way because of this?

    thank you

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron030 View Post
    Hi
    I crunched the numbers in WinISD for a JBL E-110 and the closed box volume should be 0.437 cubic feet. (QTC = 0.702) Now, this is a net internal volume. So you will need to add a little volume for what is taken up by the driver itself, any bracing and/or glue cleats. Since you are not absolutely sure which driver you are going to use, you could go a littler larger, maybe even as large as a full cubic foot. But, since you are using this as a midrange driver the exact enclosure volume is not as critical as say a bass reflex enclosure for a woofer. What does come into play is the enclosure shape. One school of thought is to go with a tube shaped enclosure or you can go with a box made with non-parallel walls. In any case, the box should be filled with fiberglass to add dampening. Cardboard concrete forms can be used to make a tube shaped enclosure.

    Baron030

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    Shallow Guitar Cabinet

    Many guitar cabinets are shallow, ranging from 12 to 16 inches deep. I suspect this is to maintain stage area for the musicians. Bass cabinets are deeper. As long as your box is not too shallow, it shouldn't be a problem. The biggest issue is making sure the back of your port (assuming front porting) doesn't get too close to the back or damping material.

    When you say roughly the volume you need, its a little hard to tell if the size will matter. The port tuning is related to the volume. Changing the volume of the enclosure changes the port specs. Download WinISD and check the specs to be sure. If you are using drop-D tuning it could be important, although I doubt you'll get below 55 or 60 hz no matter what you are doing. 55 hz is about an open A on a 4 string bass.

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    thanks all for the advice. I've revised my plans, I'm going to stick the E140 in its own box. I'll then look at a separate possibly open back cab for the E110. I live in a small flat in London, i simply don't have the space to build my own properly, and i don't have the money to pay someone else to do it for me. Moreover, at the moment I'm using the E140 in combo with E120s, so i need a cab that will make the most of it on its own.

    As Mac owner i'd be really grateful if someone could crunch the E140 TS specs through WinISD for me. I'll then go out and see if i can find an off the shelf cab that roughly matches. I'll probably be crossing over at 500Hz, as this is really there just to boost the low end.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Baron030's Avatar
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    Hi Toby
    I ran a few JBL E-140 simulations using WinISD.
    The picture gives you an idea of the effect that enclosure size has on the frequency response and the cut-off frequency.
    And surprisingly, the smaller enclosure has more mid-bass output, But, at the expense of a higher cut-off frequency.

    Once, you track down an enclosure for the E-140, just post the inside dimensions and thickness of the front panel.
    The numbers will get crunched in WinISD and a few port tuning solutions will get posted here with variations on the number, size and length of ports. Including a "Ductless" port option, which is just a hole in the front panel.
    Name:  JBL E-140-3-5cuFt.JPG
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    Baron030

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    thank you.

    I've found a 4625B for sale with the speaker inside. However, it is a bit more massive than i would like.

    Can anyone here identify these slightly more modestly sized cabs?

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