4425s Damaged via UPS, need advice

[ooppalla]

I just bought my dream speakers, 4425s, from a new seller on ebay. I talked with the seller before bidding and confirmed that the speakers were in excellent condition (he told me that they were hardly used and were about 2 years old). If you want to see them, they are on ebay #3745678972
Unfortunately, he didn't follow my, nor UPS guidelines/instructions. He bubble wrapped and single boxed the speakers, which I think means that UPS will not stand behind the insurance, if he indeed purchased the 1,000 of Ins that I requested. I paid all the frieght/ins and $60 for packaging via check and CC via Paypal for the 4425s so I have recourse if there were problems.
Because of the packaging there is a good amount of burnishing marks on the horns and edges of the speakers from rattling around in the boxes, not good, but not fatal
The second speaker I opened had the same problems with burnishing, but also had two cuts into one side of the horn. The cuts of 3" and 1.5" extend through to the back of the radial horn's side at about 35% of the size of the front cuts. There is also something rattling around inside this speaker.
I need JBLers advice
Can the horns be replaced easily? Can I buy them? Locations of service centers, etc.
Should I have the speakers bench checked to see if there are any problems with drivers, cross-over, etc? Or is that a waste of time?
After I find out what UPS says I will remove the woofer to see what is rattling around
I live in Tucson, AZ.
Good news, Even with the problems, the speakers sound great, clean, crisp, full, etc. Happy Ears and mind
Thank you for your advice

[Zilch]

Don't give up on the UPS insurance. You, as recipient, can file a claim at the UPS website, but final settlement will be with the shipper.

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/res...ng/claims.html

KEEP ALL OF THE PACKAGING for the UPS inspector to examine. This is REQUIRED. Recover it from the trash if you've thrown it out.

If they inform you they'll come pick up the speakers for inspection, tell them firmly you want them to send the inspector instead, as they are too heavy to risk further damage in handling.

Hopefully, your seller DID purchase the additional insurance. If not, he should cover the damages, but you'd be lucky to collect directly from him. Check with your credit card company for the terms of their consumer protection. Their toll-free number is on the back of your card, typically, or on your statement.

Neither eBay nor Paypal will be of much assistance in this. Any claim you file with Paypal must be made within 30 days. With eBay, it's after 30 days, but within 60.

Open a cordial line of communication with your seller immediately regarding the problem. You'll want to work together to get the insurance paid.

Replacement parts are likely available from JBL. Thankfully, the cabinets themselves were not damaged. Find your closest JBL Authorized Service Center here:

http://www.jblproservice.com/service/arizona.html

Get a written estimate from them for the bench check and repair costs. You'll need that for your claim. Print out the auction page, and copy both of the photos there to your computer, and print them as well. The auction will be accessible on eBay for 90 days using the auction number or the link in your End of Auction eMail from eBay.

I note your seller's phone number is on the auction page. You'll need that to file your claim.

Sorry this happened; hopefully, it will all work out....

[andresohc]

Check out this thread

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...&threadid=3200

[Zilch]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...722309667&rd=1

OUCH!

[andresohc]

I went to Orange county speaker last Friday and they said the 2342 horns are still available from JBL for $154 each.

[ooppalla]

Thank you

[Zilch]

Let us know the progress and outcome. Were they fully insured, in fact? And your experience with claim filing, finding parts, estimates, etc.

It can be instructive for the rest of us contemplating similar transactions....

[ooppalla]

Update:
Turns out that UPS automatically puts $100 of Ins. on each box. I asked the seller to put $1,000 of ins on the order. He put an additional $300 per box for a total of $400 per box. The speakers sold on Ebay for 820, UPS shipping and Ins appx $110. UPS locally (Tucson), gave me a phone quote of $45 to double box, the UPS in NJ quoted $60.00 per box so the seller agreed to box for the price of supplies which he said was $60.00. The seller only single boxed the speakers and did not put any corner specific packaging on the speakers, @#$%^&*. This is a HUGE error. Always Double box, though UPS no longer requires that, and for a buck or two of cardboard protect the corners.
Damage to one speaker was mostly burnishing of the horn and related front black material. Grill material was fine. Not bad at all.
Box two had the burnishing and two cuts into the outside ear of the horn and the back two bottom corners of this speaker were knocked in about 30% of the particle board, unsightly, but the boxes are fully intact. There is also something rattling inside, but the sound seems fine... Actually it is Fabulous
I took Zilch's good suggestion to insist that the speakers be inspected at my home. The Call to report the claim to UPS Corp was easy and within 1.5 days they returned the call from their office in Phx (110 miles north of Tucson), but only to my house, not my cell, so phone tag for a day.
Anita called back first thing Monday, apologized for not calling the cell and said that Lauren who is a student/part time inspector is to call Don within 48 Hours ... she has 24 hours to go.
I spoke to the buyer last night who responded to my email regarding a cut in the side of one box, which I thought might be the culprit of the sliced horn. He said that the boxes were new. (I had inspected the boxes closely before his call) and when I asked about the cut on the box, he said there was no cut there when he dropped the packages off. The tape over the cut on the boxes side(same tape as the rest of the box, clear) has been taped over on the top of the box. The seller said they (UPS) probably opened the box to inspect the speaker because of Terrorists, etc. He insists that there was no horn damage at all when he packaged the speakers. Except for a couple of scratches and the UPS damage the speakers are in very good condition. The seller said they were only two years old and hardly used. He is also trying to sell me two power amps, a 12 Cerwin Vega sub and a mixing board.

Stay tuned for the next installment,
Who Goin Pay for the New Horn

[ooppalla]

Good news UPS Update:
the following notes are from my personal log:
** DON September 29, 2004 at 1:52pm
Lauren XXXXXX, from UPS, arrived around 120pm, inspected the boxes, took pictures of the boxes, Don showed Lauren the speakers, the cut in the BI-Radial horn, the 4425 model numbers, the corners smashed in, the scratches on both speakers, the burnishing. She said that she cannot approve the claim, but obvious that the speakers were well packed, that the boxes severely damaged so looks like they will honor the claim. Don said doing an "Article" for online forum Re: Ebay and UPS claim (Heck it couldn't hurt to tell her and it might help) Don asked to what level fix? She said like new condition up to the ins limit. That UPS's official Affiliate is Crawford Ins and they will be getting back to the Insurer (Ebay seller/shipper) within 2-3 days to say if they will honor claim, to what level etc. Don will have to take to JBL dealer to get quote on fixing the speakers to get the claim settled. Whole process, and don't quote her on this is 4-6 weeks... After her inspection it is in the hands of the Ins Co., etc. She advised that Ebay buyers contact seller in couple of days if Don't hear from seller.

[Zilch]

So, now the appropriate question:

Does the Insurance Co. or UPS inform the buyer/recipient of the final claim outcome so as to prevent a potential lying/weasel seller/shpper from just keeping the settlement/money?

[johnaec]

Originally posted by Zilch
So, now the appropriate question:

Does the Insurance Co. or UPS inform the buyer/recipient of the final claim outcome so as to prevent a potential lying/weasel seller/shpper from just keeping the settlement/money?

When UPS busted up an amp sent to me, everything after the inspection was done with the seller. Here's where it pays to have a good relationship with the seller. I actually got the repair bid, though, since I opted to have the amp fixed. UPS needed an official quote, (from repair shop), which I had to send to the seller to present to UPS, after which they agreed to the amount. In my case, the seller and I also agreed that he would send a letter to UPS instructing they pay me directly, which they did. But it was the seller that had to request that.

John

[ooppalla]

You guys are great. I will do that. Question: As the wood veneer is not an expertise of most JBL shops, do I get a separate quote for hopefully the new veneer and then get the horns replaced via JBL and submit two claims?

[Zilch]

Chances are your JBL Pro Service Center will have a cabinet shop they use for repairs. They may include that in their repair estimate, or send you there for a separate one for that part. At least, expect them to be able to recommend someone. If you have a different cabinet restorer you'd like to use, get an estimate for that part from them directly.

All of the damage is against the claim(s) you have presently filed. From what John just said, you'll need to provide your seller with the repair estimates, from the several sources for the different trades, as required. Talk to your seller regarding what support documentation they need. It's apparently between them and the insurance company now....

[ooppalla]

Zilch, great advice. Thank you.

[SteveW]

FYI...awhile back I bought some 4430's via E-Bay for $1000 and seller shipped through UPS. The boxes looked ok from the outside so signed away and the guy left. Immediately grabbed a beer to celebrate the grand opening. Minutes later found a horn was cracked and knocked loose on one, and on both most of the rear corners were smashed in. Immediately switched to liquor. Anyway.....the seller had purchased insurance, and after a couple phone calls I found that I was totally out of the loop. Seller deals with UPS, since they bought the insurance. UPS finally called me and made a "phone assessment". They wanted to know if a box manufacturers classification was printed on the cardboard, the packaging technique and a description of damage. They said I had better be accurate - they may send someone out to look for themselves. During all this I was able to figure out that the classification must be of certain level for insurance to apply. They wouldn't tell me if this level was met - that was the insurers business, and if a claim was paid they would own the speakers. A month later the seller called me and said UPS/seller got an estimate from JBL on their value, and that UPS would be handling the damage as two separate claims. Two months later I received a personal check from the seller for $500, and a month after that got a check for another $500. I have no idea how much UPS paid the seller. Have yet to hear from UPS.