Cool -Originally Posted by macaroonie
Do you have any tips on how Ashley can measure his room to determine what frequencies are off
and help him decide what sort of treatments he actually needs and where?
Cool -
Do you have any tips on how Ashley can measure his room to determine what frequencies are off
and help him decide what sort of treatments he actually needs and where?
2ch: WiiM Pro; Topping E30 II DAC; Oppo, Acurus RL-11, Acurus A200, JBL Dynamics Project - Offline: L212-TwinStack, VonSchweikert VR-4
7: TIVO, Oppo BDP103D, B&K, 2pr UREI 809A, TF600, JBL B460
He's the man with the RTA and mic. We are talking rudimentary treatment here , no more than that.
If he makes panels and hangs them like pictures he can move em about to his hearts content without covering the wall surfaces with No More Nails. He should be able to 'see' the changes that he makes , the rest will de facto be a matter of interpretation of the results.
Bass Traps can be done as Rich suggested. Probably useful if the room is approaching square dimensions.
my practical suggestion was providing measurements so one knows what the specific issues are that needs to be addressed before blindly providing "treatments".Y'all gittin a bit to fancy there son.
Ashley lives in a small apartment and has limited resources. What he lacks in dosh and expertise he makes up for in enthusiasm. His room is more than likely somewhat splashy if you will and while the foam jobs that he was attracted to would do something what I suggested would most likely be cheaper and more versatile as a DIY solution towards his desired goal. We are talking less than a hundred bucks here chief , what do you charge for nipping out to do a modal analysis ?
Ash its about time you chimed in here fellah , what do you think ? You are the client after all.
Mac
BTW Mr Local host , I am not seeing any worthwhile practical suggestions coming from your quarter. $ 150 max
room eq wizard is free.
something like this can be had for $50:
http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/Behringer/ECM8000
the user can then measure (waterfall plot 0-300hz) to find the best placement for speakers and listening position --- that gives the best freq response (eg. the best "starting point") ...
from there, one will know (via simple measurements) what the exact remaining issues are that need to be treated.
sorry, but any chamber that attenuates all reflections is anechoic - regardless of the area of electro-mag spectrum that is of context.Not sure that I would test RF in an anechoic chamber with foam blocks on the wall. That would just be called a chamber.....
foam works fine --- the difficulty is finding foam that does *broadband* absorption as effectively as mineral wool or rigid fiberglass, and for finding it at a better price!
attenuated 10-40ghz wavelengths (x,k,ka,ku bands) is not terribly difficult... however, LF content has much, much more energy...
all small acoustical spaces will benefit from as much broadband bass trapping as possible. due to the small dimensions, the modes are generally spaced further apart. trapping in the modal region will assist with freq response but more importantly, decay timing. a waterfall plot (0-300hz) will detail this.
right - and how does one know the issues that need to be "tamed" without measurements? how can one verify that the procured treatments are indeed functioning as advertized without post-treatments?
in small acoustical spaces, yes --- there are some general guidelines that can be followed (attenuating all early specular reflections, and basically as much broadband bass trapping as you can manage)... but measurements really need to be taken before blindly procuring "solutions". measurements seem like a very advanced topic, but it is incredibly simple --- and Room EQ Wizard is free!
We've probably explored this topic as far as is possible until Ashley does some room measurements and pipes up with what he needs to change.
It really is his listening chamber - none of us are anywhere near Bournemouth -
only he will know what he wants to do once he has some numbers.
2ch: WiiM Pro; Topping E30 II DAC; Oppo, Acurus RL-11, Acurus A200, JBL Dynamics Project - Offline: L212-TwinStack, VonSchweikert VR-4
7: TIVO, Oppo BDP103D, B&K, 2pr UREI 809A, TF600, JBL B460
- waterfall plot (0-300hz; 0-1000ms)
- Envelope Time Curve (0-300ms)
the waterfall plot will detail modal issues (frequency response + decay time (modal ringing))
the ETC will detail specular issues in the time domain
any frequency response issues you have from 500-20khz (eg comb-filtering) will likely be solved in the time-domain via the ETC. the ETC is probably the most powerful tool one has regarding acoustics.
ay yay yay.....why are you stating the obvious and why does everyone keep dribbling on about RF? I guess maybe if the had covered the f22 in foam maybe they would not have had so many rain issues.......If Ash put auto carpet on his walls and cieling and carpeted the floors, he would fix 95-98% of the issues in his room. The other 5% are not worth the trouble.sorry, but any chamber that attenuates all reflections is anechoic - regardless of the area of electro-mag spectrum that is of context.
foam works fine --- the difficulty is finding foam that does *broadband* absorption as effectively as mineral wool or rigid fiberglass, and for finding it at a better price!
attenuated 10-40ghz wavelengths (x,k,ka,ku bands) is not terribly difficult... however, LF content has much, much more energy...
Because you insisted that RF test chambers were not anechoic chambers ("RF. they are just called chambers" , remember?) - many people popped up to correct you. They like these discussions to be accurate and not just bull sessions.
Just slapping foam or carpet all over the floor, walls, and ceiling isn't the proper approach.
As various folks keep saying, making his room into something like an anechoic chamber, into a dead, inert space, would NOT be a good approach for enjoying music or movies.
It would become a measurement space, but would NOT be a pleasant reproduction of a theatre space for Ash to enjoy his movies in.
Again, making rough generalities is worthless - this is scientific stuff.
If he wants to do it right, he has to do tests, take measurements, and work on specific issues he finds ...
Localhost127 has great suggestions on doing this on the cheap -
Ash may even have the right mic already - he owns quite bit of Behringer stuff,
and based on all the waterfall charts he's posted in the past, he likes taking measurements!
And Macaroonie has posted designs for making room correction pieces cheaply -
and even suggested hanging them like pictures so they can be moved - that how to do it right!
2ch: WiiM Pro; Topping E30 II DAC; Oppo, Acurus RL-11, Acurus A200, JBL Dynamics Project - Offline: L212-TwinStack, VonSchweikert VR-4
7: TIVO, Oppo BDP103D, B&K, 2pr UREI 809A, TF600, JBL B460
Actually, you mentioned the RF and I pointed out that a room built for audio would have little attenuation at RF. Of course, sometimes the blatently obvious is not so obvious to some poeple. Ash's room doesnt warrant science, he doesnt require the perfect room, he doesnt have the perfect gear and he doesnt have a capacious wallett. My suggestion is perfectly adequate for what he wants. I have done a dozen or so rooms for friends so I know what I am talking about. There is no science needed.
You say one thing, then deny it means what you said.
The words you typed are right on the screen for all to read.
Localhost127 and Macaroonie already explained how to do this PROPERLY at low cost -
we ALL know he is on a tight budget. Ashley has already proved he is quite capable of taking measurements
and posting the results. He's done it many times before. We think he can do it properly within a low budget.
You however seem intent on just slapping stuff on the wall, no matter what the knowledgeable people on the list say,
you are intent on half-assing the job. You also seem to reply to me purely for the express purpose of arguing.
Its pointless talking to you.
You sir, have joined my troll list - enjoy!
2ch: WiiM Pro; Topping E30 II DAC; Oppo, Acurus RL-11, Acurus A200, JBL Dynamics Project - Offline: L212-TwinStack, VonSchweikert VR-4
7: TIVO, Oppo BDP103D, B&K, 2pr UREI 809A, TF600, JBL B460
Ash,
I don't know if this will be helpful to you, but here's a very good intro on small room acoustics:
http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
And here's the main site it came from:
http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthr...oard/24/page/1
I recommend you click on the "READ THIS FIRST - PLEASE!" link first. I'm no acoustician, but I've implemented some of the author's suggestions in my rooms and they've been extremely helpful.
I've also purchased some foam to tame a nasty slap echo where an HVAC duct hangs down from the ceiling from www.foambymail.com. They make all kinds of foam products. The acoustic foams they manufacture appear (I don't know that they are in fact) to be the same as those sold by Auralex. And they're prices are VERY reasonable. But, I don't know if they'll ship to the U.K. http://www.foambymail.com/Products.html
A little off topic; they also have speaker grille foam, but it's hard to find. Here's a direct link: http://www.foambymail.com/Hi-FlowFoam.html
please do not propose such ideas as solution. you are sending the wrong message to people who would otherwise like to take the right approach in treating specific issues in the room. this is the type of commentary that gives room treatments a bad name. auto "carpet" does not have the gas-flow-resistivity/absorption coefficients to tame the mid and LF issues that carry the most energy content and are the most difficult to tame. almost any material can absorb HF content --- there is little energy there. however, soaking all of the HF content while leaving the mid/LF content is what many commonly do, and then are left with a boomy/muddy sounding room.
Yes, better do nothing at all rather than that...
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