Paragon build Epic question thread. guidance most appericated...

[professor plum]

Hey guys, so this is my first post and I still have a lot to learn, but I have a BUNCH of questions for you fine people about a project I really want to do. Sorry this post might be a little long, but theres a lot I want to know! lol

So I am a kid who is living in Brooklyn and pretty much eats sleeps and breaths music. I want the best hi-fi set up I can manage at home, but being young and not super rich, my place is kinda small and durability is paramount when we throw parties.


I really would like to get these plans and make myself a Paragon.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
Im pretty handy with wood working, and have a pretty good batch of tools I can use at my parents house in jersey. So I have a bunch of questions…


How do those plans look/does anyone know if they are good? If I was to make it would the type of wood make a huge difference? Would using nice plywood have negative effects on sound? It would be good to make it sturdier I was thinking… and to go along with that question, if I did use plywood and it wouldent mess anything up, would covering it in something like this do a ton of harm?
http://samples.wilsonartcontract.com...retro-pop.aspx
I feel like that would look cool and be really easy to clean/ not get scuffed and killed in our busy living room. Im sorry if that’s kinda like sacrilege, but to do this project right im gunna end up spending a lot of money for me (which im TOTTALY down to do) but I really want it to survive its future life.


If I get that far I come to the problem of speakers. Im down to save for a while and get me some old JBL drivers, but im not DEAD set on what was exactly in the paragon, If I could save some cash that way. I want it to sound rad more than I want it to be “vintage correct”.

What would you guys suggest me looking for that will get me the most bang for my buck?
As I understand it im going to need 2 bass drivers, to compression drivers and 2 ring radiators…


Im a guitar player, and as such have some experience with the JBL D130. I was kinda thinking of using a pair of these as the bass drivers, since I still to this day remember how amazing a portable cd-player, tube guitar amp, and single fender 1x15 tone cab with the d130 sounded to me. Yeah it was mono, and yeah the cd player wasn’t the best but there was something magical about it- so much that Id like to try to get d130 in there if you guys didn’t think it would be a horrid idea.


(also as far as I understand the back bell is way bigger on the D130 than whatever was in the paragon, but I was thinking if im building it I could work around that a little.)

as you can probably tell, im not a wizard at hi-fi stuff and know a lot more about guitars and getting them to make sounds than i do about stereo speakers. i just know when i hear good sounds! i also just think the paragon is such a cool design/concept that its worth a little extra hassle...

anyway i am all ears for any insight i can get from a great forum such as this, and thanks for your time/help.



-john

[Maron Horonzakz]

You can get pre veneered plywood,,4x8 sheets 3/4",,,if you want to do it right and not basterdize the design,, the hardest part will be making the curved reflective panel,,,This means making a special JIG holding the layers of 1/8 ply layered & glue,d,,,To keep the arc in tolorence,,,Carving the legs is another problem but can be done...The proper woofer would be JBL 150-4 or Le-15,,,Finding the elipticle horns for the 375 mid drivers is not easy to accuire,,,LX5 and N7000 xovers are needed,,,Ive made several Paragons,,Its labor intensive,,,If you want to make it right and adhere to the plans,, You cant tell the difference from mine and the origional,,,But after its all done, you will find the sound is not that exceptional.

[Mr. Widget]

So I am a kid who is living in Brooklyn and pretty much eats sleeps and breaths music. I want the best hi-fi set up I can manage at home, but being young and not super rich, my place is kinda small and durability is paramount when we throw parties.

The JBL Paragon is a work of art and a beautiful piece of modernist furniture. It is not JBL's or anyone's best speaker system by any objective measure.

You say your place is "kinda small"... the Paragon is a huge speaker system and looks out of proportion in all but the largest living rooms.

Building a Paragon, would be a great project and is worthy of lust, love, and longing, but if your goal is excellence in sound and something to power a party or two, there are hundreds of better choices.


Widget

[doodle6]

Hey guys, so this is my first post and I still have a lot to learn, but I have a BUNCH of questions for you fine people about a project I really want to do. Sorry this post might be a little long, but theres a lot I want to know! lol

So I am a kid who is living in Brooklyn and pretty much eats sleeps and breaths music. I want the best hi-fi set up I can manage at home, but being young and not super rich, my place is kinda small and durability is paramount when we throw parties.


I really would like to get these plans and make myself a Paragon.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
Im pretty handy with wood working, and have a pretty good batch of tools I can use at my parents house in jersey. So I have a bunch of questions…


How do those plans look/does anyone know if they are good? If I was to make it would the type of wood make a huge difference? Would using nice plywood have negative effects on sound? It would be good to make it sturdier I was thinking… and to go along with that question, if I did use plywood and it wouldent mess anything up, would covering it in something like this do a ton of harm?
http://samples.wilsonartcontract.com...retro-pop.aspx
I feel like that would look cool and be really easy to clean/ not get scuffed and killed in our busy living room. Im sorry if that’s kinda like sacrilege, but to do this project right im gunna end up spending a lot of money for me (which im TOTTALY down to do) but I really want it to survive its future life.


If I get that far I come to the problem of speakers. Im down to save for a while and get me some old JBL drivers, but im not DEAD set on what was exactly in the paragon, If I could save some cash that way. I want it to sound rad more than I want it to be “vintage correct”.

What would you guys suggest me looking for that will get me the most bang for my buck?
As I understand it im going to need 2 bass drivers, to compression drivers and 2 ring radiators…


Im a guitar player, and as such have some experience with the JBL D130. I was kinda thinking of using a pair of these as the bass drivers, since I still to this day remember how amazing a portable cd-player, tube guitar amp, and single fender 1x15 tone cab with the d130 sounded to me. Yeah it was mono, and yeah the cd player wasn’t the best but there was something magical about it- so much that Id like to try to get d130 in there if you guys didn’t think it would be a horrid idea.


(also as far as I understand the back bell is way bigger on the D130 than whatever was in the paragon, but I was thinking if im building it I could work around that a little.)

as you can probably tell, im not a wizard at hi-fi stuff and know a lot more about guitars and getting them to make sounds than i do about stereo speakers. i just know when i hear good sounds! i also just think the paragon is such a cool design/concept that its worth a little extra hassle...

anyway i am all ears for any insight i can get from a great forum such as this, and thanks for your time/help.



-john

There are a number of manufacturers who can provide curved plywood panel blanks, pre-manufactured in a number of different radii. I've built lots of curved cabinets over the years using pre-made blanks, then applying my own veneers. In addition, I've made my own curved plywood when I needed a radius that I couldn't find from a component manufacturer. To do that additional work is a considerable undertaking, mainly because of the significant amount of time that goes into the creation of ACCURATE forms to use in pressing multiple sheets of 1/8" thick veneers together as they are glued into the final curved shape. Errors will show up dramatically after application of the finish veneer, so great care is required in the fabrication of the forms and in the gluing process itself. I am not sure what the radius of the Paragon panel is, but I would guess it's at least 6 feet and I've never found any manufactured panels built on a radius greater than 48". But I would do a lengthy search before deciding to do it myself. New products come along all the time and it's been a while since I last searched for curved components. I used a company in New Jersey for several years and they had a good assortment of radii. Sorry, but I don't remember the name of those guys at the moment. If you have trouble locating a source, let me know and I'll dig through the files and find the name for you.

[more10]

Since you have limited funds, build a cheaper 2-way system initially, then upgrade it when you got more cash.

If you got the space, a 4530 backloaded bass horn and a 2" (1" throat) horn driver makes a nice 2-way system. If you don't have the space for a bass horn, build a bass reflex (maybe a 2226?).

You can upgrade the initial 2-way system with a 4" driver (and horn) and a tweeter for a 3-way.

You can also upgrade it with sub bass, reaching 30 Hz or so.

Buy used good quality PA amps (Crest?) and electronic filters. Much cheaper than HiFi stuff. Or build the amps ourself (I like 41hz.com kits).

[BMWCCA]

Id like to try to get d130 in there if you guys didn’t think it would be a horrid idea.

Since no one's touched on that portion of the OP, allow me to take a stab at it. As a long-time user and lover of the D130 let me be the first to say it's not really a "bass driver". It's a fine fully-instrumented" even full-range transducer and that's what makes it work so well with guitars. But it doesn't go low enough or handle enough power to provide what you're looking for. And I don't understand your size issue since the D130 magnet assembly is actually smaller than the correct woofer for the Paragon.

[Rolf]

Get the plans and see what you can do. I am a previous owner of the Paragon.

[professor plum]

thanks for all the input guys!