Please recommend amps for bass!

[1audiohack]

I have bought new and still have my GFA 565's, and 585's, and for bass a Crown M600 / Techron 7560 or 7570 will flat kill either of the Adcoms, even a 585 bridged mono does not compare.

If you can use a fan cooled amp the best I have heard yet is a Crown MacroTech 3600.

[scott fitlin]

I biamp my 4340's with a pair of k1's , seems to do thé trick. The DC300's sound better.

Many, including myself, feel the CROWN DC-300A was one of THE BEST sounding amps Crown EVER made. For bass, I LOVE Crown, especially the sound of the D series. Direct coupled amps just sound great for bottom end, NO INTERSTAGE COUPLING CAPACITORS. Take a DC-300A and bridge mono it, and run a JBL 18 in a proper enclosure, and I doubt you would be unhappy.

The K1 and K2 make great bass, also, but I wouldn't use the K series on mids or higher. Another Crown model, but scarce, and expensive when you do come across them, The Crown Macro or Studio Reference 1 or 2, these amps makes phenomenal bottom. Besides them being a discontinued amp, and the price when you do find them, they are fan cooled, so might not be ideal in a home enviroment. But, they make some of the best bass I have ever heard from ANY amp, I don't care how much MORE you spend, these things are incredible amps for woofer duty.

Another brand of amplifier, Bryston, also makes great bass, Bryston is pricey, but not, IMO, over priced, and Bryston amps are made with HUGE power supplies, great parts, circuits and design, and you can always find lots of Bryston on eBay. As well, Bryston has that 20 year warranty, and the warranty is TRANSFERRABLE, too! IF you liked the DC-300A on your JBL woofers, I think you would LOVE the Bryston 4B SST. The Bryston amps are cleaner than Crown, I know, Crown was always considered one of the cleanest amps, but, Bryston is even cleaner. And Bryston is one of the most resolving amps I have ever used. And, IF COST IS NO OBJECT, I heard a BIG Bryston 14B SST driving four JBL 2226 in ported cabinets, 2 woofers per channel, MAN it ain't going to get much better than this. The BIG Brystons just seem ENDLESS in their power reserves, and never seem to run out of gas!

I have bought new and still have my GFA 565's, and 585's, and for bass a Crown M600 / Techron 7560 or 7570 will flat kill either of the Adcoms, even a 585 bridged mono does not compare.

If you can use a fan cooled amp the best I have heard yet is a Crown MacroTech 3600.

The Crown M-600, we used that amp from 1976 to 1978, and IMO, for very low impedance loads, it is a great amp. After the M-600, in the 80,s, we had The Crown Delta Omega, another KICK ASS beast of an amp.

I still use a Crown Macro Tech 3600VZ, it is a great sounding high powered amplifier for sub bass duty. You would like the Macro Tech 5000VZ as well. Oodles of that Crown power. Besides fan noise, a major thing to consider IF using an amp like the 3600VZ, is AC electrical power. The 3600VZ MUST have it's own dedicated 30 amp breaker and outlet. The Macro Techs are power hungry amps, but, feed them good, clean, dedicated AC power, and they will make your JBL woofers sing! IMO, the big Macro Techs are outstanding for subwoofer application, of any kind, consumer, studio, HT, pro. They make incredible low end.

If one can live with the Macro Tech's fan, use whatever you like on your main speakers, and the right Crown on your subs, and words like AMAZING come to mind, immediately.

[scott fitlin]

Thanks for your comment, but I don't have DIY skill at all. The adcom I use is an early version. The thing is Crown DC300's have two input channels on the front, so you can control the bass with them, even though you can adjust the volume with the preamp. I love that. You can't do this with the Adcom, though.

Yeah, you can do what you say, BUT, since your using an active electronic crossover, I am a HUGE fan of running the amps front panel level controls wide open, and use the crossovers level controls to adjust the level.

I subscribe to the school of thought that amplifiers sound their very best with the input level attenuators full open. This is also why alot of amps have NO input level attenuator control. NO POT IS THE BEST POT OF ALL! And, also, many high end designs now used stepped attenuators, set up with precision 1% tolerance metal film resistors INSTEAD of a potentiometer! Tracking becomes the issue with potentiometers, as well as distortion. It's very difficult to obtain 2 pots with the exact same resistance characteristics, and many manufacturers go to great lengths to match stereo pairs of pots. What happens is you have two pots, OR a dual ganged stereo pot, and IF the two sides aren't exact, there is always a channel to channel imbalance. Good stepped attenuators with 1% tolerance precision resistors alleviates this problem, but, good stepped attenuators besides being large, are expensive.

[Akira]

M
Another brand of amplifier, Bryston, also makes great bass, Bryston is pricey, but not, IMO, over priced, and Bryston amps are made with HUGE power supplies, great parts, circuits and design, and you can always find lots of Bryston on eBay. As well, Bryston has that 20 year warranty, and the warranty is TRANSFERRABLE, too! IF you liked the DC-300A on your JBL woofers, I think you would LOVE the Bryston 4B SST. The Bryston amps are cleaner than Crown, I know, Crown was always considered one of the cleanest amps, but, Bryston is even cleaner. And Bryston is one of the most resolving amps I have ever used. And, IF COST IS NO OBJECT, I heard a BIG Bryston 14B SST driving four JBL 2226 in ported cabinets, 2 woofers per channel, MAN it ain't going to get much better than this. The BIG Brystons just seem ENDLESS in their power reserves, and never seem to run out of gas!

Bryston IMO is absolutely one of the best for low end application. (but, I liked the sound of the old Harmon Kardon Citation 11's better on the top) Bryston 4B's can be had at a pretty reasonable price on the used market...nothing wrong with a 5-10 year old Bryston for under a grand.
On a side note: Personally I have a rule of using only matched amps throughout a multi-amped system.

[scott fitlin]

Bryston IMO is absolutely one of the best for low end application. (but, I liked the sound of the old Harmon Kardon Citation 11's better on the top) Bryston 4B's can be had at a pretty reasonable price on the used market...nothing wrong with a 5-10 year old Bryston for under a grand.
On a side note: Personally I have a rule of using only matched amps throughout a multi-amped system.

I can relate! In my experience, like anything and everything else audio, mating amps and speakers is the name of the game. I find certain speakers perform and sound wonderful from top to bottom with Bryston, other speakers I didn't care for the way the top sounded with Bryston, either, but not necessarily the fault of the amplifier, just wasn't a synergistic match between the amp and the load. As I once thought Bryston amplifiers to be on the bright sounding side of things, when I used my 3B SST on TAD 4002 compression drivers, it was NOT overly bright as I had thought the amp to be. It was super clear, super clean, super smooth, super exact, and one of the MOST resolving on micro detail I've ever used. THIS combination works well. Another thing I find Bryston to be very good at, in the way I like Crown, is DYNAMICS! Bryston amplifers are champs at dynamics, notes have that transient BURST! To my ears Bryston amplifiers have that immediacy with transient response that makes pre recorded music so exciting sounding. From top to bottom, transient detail is wicked. But, IF coloration is what one is looking for, look elsewhere, Bryston is not an amplifier of synthetic warmth, bass is not "fat" nor anemic, what you put in is what you get out. On low end, Bryton IS fast, and very muscular though. This is a good thing. Another thing I like about Bryston, is their gear always seems to EXCEED their published specifications! For instance, the 4B amps, whether an old 4B from 1985, or the current 4B SST2 their 250 watts@8ohms, trounces other manufacturers 350 watts@8ohms. Also, and Bryston makes a point of saying it, and my ears agree, their BIG amps sound as good in the upper midrange and very high frequencies, as their smaller amps that are known for excellent high frequency performance. And, when I heard the 20 amp version of the Bryston 14B SST powering four JBL 2226H woofers in ported cabinets, the slam and punch of this combination of amp/driver was one of the most unbeatable I've had the pleasure of listening to, as far as ported cabinets go. And their flagship 28B SST2 mono blocks are MONSTERS!

So, I do agree with you wholeheartedly, Bryston IS definitely, and absolutely one of the BEST for low end applications. ESPECIALLY JBL and TAD woofers. Bryston amps on low end have it all. Slam, extension, great motion control, accuracy, RELIABILITY and DURABILITY, and TONS of great clean power, with plenty of headroom as long as one selects the proper model for the job.

Then, as a company, Bryston is one of the VERY best in todays world. A real company staffed by real people that can and will go out of their way to help and accommodate you.

JBL woofers IME, LOVE Bryston power!

[pyonc]

Many, including myself, feel the CROWN DC-300A was one of THE BEST sounding amps Crown EVER made. For bass, I LOVE Crown, especially the sound of the D series. Direct coupled amps just sound great for bottom end, NO INTERSTAGE COUPLING CAPACITORS. Take a DC-300A and bridge mono it, and run a JBL 18 in a proper enclosure, and I doubt you would be unhappy.

Thanks a lot for your kind guidance and insight, Scott.
Which sounds better, Crown DC300A or DC300A Series II?
Series II gets a little bigger power than the early one, though bigger power doesn't guarantee a better sond, right?
As I have never used the earlier DC300A, I have no way to tell which one is better.

[jbl_daddy]

I have owned all thee DC300's over th,years and he series two's sound thé best to me. There are two generations of twos, thé older one,have white capacitors and the later model has blue ones. I have thee of each and can not tell thé difference. Thé reason it maters is they are slightly different shades of grey... mine sit all together so it matters.

[jbl_daddy]

Do not rule out the PS400's, my new smart phone sucks. I miss my blackberry...

[pyonc]

I have owned all thee DC300's over th,years and he series two's sound thé best to me. There are two generations of twos, thé older one,have white capacitors and the later model has blue ones. I have thee of each and can not tell thé difference. Thé reason it maters is they are slightly different shades of grey... mine sit all together so it matters.

Thank you for your kind response, jbl daddy. Why do you feel Series II sounds best to you? Because it has bigger power, or any other reason? I'm just curious. I've had experience with Series II, but not with the early version.

[jbl_daddy]

These amps are running a pair of 250ti's and B380's, thé newer amps seem to cooler, thé thér reason is thé older 300's would sometimes pop and have fiincey issues. nock on wood but thé newer amps have been very reliable. On a side note, none of the k series amp,have ever given me problems since i purchased all of them new.

[toddalin]

Big power in a big "quiet" amp (GREAT S/N ratio and damping factor). And if you can find the very limited "ShowCo" (XH = "extended headroom" edition) like I did, you get even more "headroom." I paid $225 for mine, used and filthy, but working perfectly. I use mine bridged to mono to power my W15GTI sub run at 12 ohms.

[jbl_daddy]

The PSA-2's are great sounding amps, i was using a pair of them when lightning struck my house and destroyed them. I called Crown to send them in for repair and they will not service them anymore. This was about eight years ago. I purchased a pair of K1's replaced them and have never looked back. But a great amp until it dies...

[LowPhreak]

I agree with some of the models mentioned here. Also, I've always found bi-polar outputs (ie: earlier Adcoms, Brystons, Krells, Levinsons, Rowlands, Thresholds) to have the edge for bass duty over MOSFETs.

Another option if you can find them are the Krell KSA series, like the KSA-150 & 250, or their monoblock versions, the MDA-300, etc. As someone said, shipping might be a bit of hassle since they're so big and heavy.

In the mid-90's, I had a set of Apogee "Mini-Grands", which were Apogee Stage ribbon panels atop their optional (2) 8" Vifa woofers per side, and used a KSA-150 for the bottom, (I recall from about the mid 20's Hz to 70 or 80Hz, and impedance was about 3 ohms, etc.). Really made those subs shine with an iron grip, great resolution (no muddiness or one-note quality), and the amp had plenty of reach in the last octave.


Internet pics of the Apogees & KSA-150 (not mine):

[scott fitlin]

I have been using Crown PSA-2 amps on my 15,s. Even to this day, through my TAD woofers, the PSA-2 makes some HUGE BUILDING SHAKING BOTTOM.

BUT, I tried a much much NEWER Crown, and it blew the PSA-2 out of the water in terms of definition, detail, and articulation. No, The K wasn't as heavy sounding, but OTOH, with TODAY'S music it made the notes coming out of the 15,s sound the WAY MUSIC USED TO SOUND! I AM going to change this winter, I firmly believe in what my ears tell me, and I also believe that sometimes audio gear of a particular era work best with with the music of that era.

BTW, that Krell, which is known for exactly what you describe in the low end, looks simply BEAST!

[JuniorJBL]

I use K2’s on my 2242's and on a pair of sub1500's. I think they work very well. They are crossed electronically with Ashley 1001’s. These are in the theater so everything is 60 Hz and below.

I use 2 Proceed HPA2’s bridged into 2 sub1500’s in the 2 channel room.
The Proceeds’ sound a wee bit better at the very bottom than the K2’s but not by much.
The K2 is almost twice the power as an HPA2 and just a single HPA2 will not compete with a single K2.
K2’s have increased in price (almost retail) since they were discontinued and the HPA2’s are available for less than half of retail.
I have owned the K’s since new and purchased the Proceeds’ from the original owner and have used this combo for about 4-5 years now and see no reason to change.