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Thread: Altec Model 19 - replacement of 802 with TAD 2001 compression driver

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altec Best View Post
    BTW,are those 802-8G's for sale
    Hello Altec Best - for now, I would keep the 802-8gs in case I ever have to go back to stock, either because I like them better than the TAD (cannot see how this will be possible based on my prior experience with my TAD4001-based system) or to sell M19s as stock.

    For example, I might have to sell if someone can lend me 25K to buy:

    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....II-4-way-horn-



    Will keep folks alerted to my progress in the future.

    Sincerely,

    Don

  2. #17
    Senior Member Altec Best's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donroth View Post
    For example, I might have to sell if someone can lend me 25K to buy:
    For that kind of money I would get a pair of Everest II's

    BTW: I didn't think you would sell the 802's I was just kidding.They should always remain with the 19's to give someone options of being able to bring them back to stock/original condition. Besides I have a pair of NOS 802-8G's w/23744 diaghram already still in the original shipping boxes.


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    "James B. Lansing" = Lansing Manufacturing ~ Altec Lansing ~ JBL

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altec Best View Post
    For that kind of money I would get a pair of Everest II's
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    I don't think you can get Everests for that $:

    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....Everest-66000-


    FYI to Steve Jones - could not get in touch with you off-line. Messages to your private email all bounced and did not have permission privately to get in touch with you thru the forum.

    Sincerely,

    Don

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by donroth View Post

    FYI to Steve Jones - could not get in touch with you off-line. Messages to your private email all bounced and did not have permission privately to get in touch with you thru the forum.
    Don,
    email me at:
    jonessteveATclear.net
    -replace AT with @

  5. #20
    Senior Member Altec Best's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donroth View Post
    I don't think you can get Everests for that $:
    That's why I still don't have a pair yet I say yes I want a pair,but my bank account says "No You Don't" Well anyway Good Luck with the TAD's


    Don Best Wishes !! Regards ~ John
    "James B. Lansing" = Lansing Manufacturing ~ Altec Lansing ~ JBL

  6. #21
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    Hi Everybody –

    I finally installed the TAD2001 in place of the 902-8A HF drivers that were the drivers that were present in my pair of M19s. I have not listened enough to tell you if this was worthwhile. I put on a Beatles mono CD, the mono masters, was listening to Hey Jude while I had one TAD2001 and one 902-8A installed. It was difficult to draw conclusions. When listening to Sonny Rollins ‘Way Out West’ CD with both TAD2001 installed, there does seem to be more of a fullness and less bright tone to this driver vs. the 902-8A. However, it seemed very subtle to me. This sort of shocks me as I expected a drastic change based on my experience with the TAD4001. Maybe this would come out with higher volume listening also where the 902-8A is only rated for 10W while the 2001 is rated for 30W. This experience to date is a testimonial to how good the 902-8A are, or I am not listening to the recordings that would decipher the major difference. I will keep at this for awhile. I have some photos regarding the actual replacement steps if you would like me to post those.
    A few comments.

    1) I wanted to remove what I thought was a bug screen on the TAD but the throat was too deep to allow me to safely try this.
    2) I did not remove the woofer – I am not sure which one it is yet. Rhetorical question, with the TAD2001 and crossover frequency at 1200 Hz, is the ideal replacement woofer the unobtainable TAD1601c?
    3) Often wondered why someone has not developed a good replacement wood horn yet since you do see those for the larger format compression drivers.

    Next I have to start to work on the crossover and internal speaker wiring. That is a December project. Still debating which way to go on this.

  7. #22
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    If you want "vintage Altec" sound then there is no reason to switch. I agree with getting the crossovers looked at, if not anything for reliability. I replaced mine with the factory replacements from GPA. I kept the originals in case I was to sell one day.

    Which version of the Altec 19 do you have? What woofers? There was a C and a B. They present different bass response. If you want a vintage type sound I would recommend adding a horn tweeter like the EV T-35 with the proper attenuation. I do believe there is a thread here discussing how to do this.

    If you are looking for the best possible sound and do not care about having a completely stock system, then they are worth a try. I would imagine you would get more extended highs at the expense of some midrange. The TAD 2001 is not designed for the Altec 19, 811B horn, but it will physically mount. This is kind of like putting a LS1 engine in a '67 Corvette. Good luck
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyLittleViking View Post
    The TAD 2001 is not designed for the Altec 19, 811B horn, but it will physically mount. This is kind of like putting a LS1 engine in a '67 Corvette. Good luck
    Is the TAD compression driver line basically also a decendent of the early
    Lansing Manufacturing Co efforts?

    much like (to my understanding that) the TAD 160* series woofers are
    generally considered further evolution of prior art....

  9. #24
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    The offerings from Great Plains Audio would probably be more of a closer representation of this evolution as they too have made great improvements, but also have what I'd consider NOS replacement parts to keep vintage Altec gear up and running running. Most times stereo pairs need to be ordered as they are not direct replacements. Bur in my experience the difference has been subtle and does not detract from the unique "vintage Altec" sonic character.

    TAD has indeed taken these improvements one step further and have sonics the likes of which the engineers at Altec Lansing could never have dreamed of, but they don't inherently have that unique Altec sound.

    It just depends on what this person is after. If they want the best possible resultant sound and do not wish to pursue a purist approach will all original or NOS components, then most certainly TAD drivers and updated crossover components would do the trick. However, its been my experience that its best to couple TAD compression drivers with the horn meant for that specific driver as well as a woofer to match the unique timbre throughout the speaker system.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyLittleViking View Post
    Which version of the Altec 19 do you have? What woofers? There was a C and a B. They present different bass response.
    Hi,

    Thanks for replying to this thread. I have not pulled the woofers yet to know but I expect they were the ones that were mated with the 902-8A compression driver. this might have been the last version of the M19 - you may know better. By the way, I thought I had the 802 compression driver until I pulled the horns/drivers out and did the exchange with the TAD2001.

    As for initial listening impressions, I think you have a good point. I am leaning towards putting the 902-8A back in. I'll give it a little more time. But might have a nice pair of TAD2001 for someone if they are interested.

    Do you have the link for GPA crossovers - I only see their loudspeakers? More than likely, I am going to keep the crossover with stock values but bypass the lugs, and replace the caps with new ones. Just have not decided yet what is the best choice. I prefer the vintage warmer sound versus the analytical sound. But I still want detail.

    Sincerely,

    Don

  11. #26
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    You most likely have the later version Model 19 with the C version ferrite motored woofers, they are certainly keepers. I'd advise emailing Great Plains Audio, not sure if they have the networks listed anymore.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyLittleViking View Post
    You most likely have the later version Model 19 with the C version ferrite motored woofers, they are certainly keepers. I'd advise emailing Great Plains Audio, not sure if they have the networks listed anymore.
    I always thought the alnico models were more desirable than the ferrite models but I have to admit these are quite good. I'll verify the model at a later time.

  13. #28
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    Yes, you are certainly correct. The Alnico drivers are indeed more desirable especially to collectors. The C version however has more bass and a smoother response esp. when coupled to DC solid state amps. When re-magnetized and working perfectly, the Alnico driver has a unique sound and when coupled with a "golden oldie" tube amp creates nothing short of what I'd call sonic magic. I used a 4-ch. magnavox tube amp which allowed me to bi-amp these speakers.

    Getting the crossovers to perform the correct way and getting the Alnico woofer performing within spec proved to be the most difficult as they tend to de-magnetize over time.

    The only reason I asked about the woofer is that if you have the later model you have none of these issues and have a better starting point for a modified system. The biggest hurdle you will face with this speaker is getting the attenuation right. Ask anyone with Altec VOTTs, they have a bloated midrange and roll-off very steeply after 10,000 Hz with virtually no usable output past 15,000 Hz. Its never been an issue with me running pure analog, but with todays digital front end capable of producing frequencies beyond the human hearing range, there is a lot to be desired. My advice to you if you really are enamored with the Altec sound is to first go the route I took and get everything performing within OE spec.

    If you do want to go the route of modifying, I'd go all out with these puppies. You can achieve sonic accuracy the likes of which you never thought was possible. There is a wealth of knowledge here that will get you on your way. The cabinets are superb and the woofers, CDs, and horns are very well thought out. The crossover is the weakest link as it uses a lot of attenuation to get them to perform well in a home setting. Remember that these speakers are basically just the home version of the VOTTs. Bi-amping these speakers in my eyes is an absolute must.
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  14. #29
    Senior Member Altec Best's Avatar
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    Zilch has come up with a passive network for the 19 that I haven't yet heard but it seems to be well received.The Z19 crossover.Search should find it here or at AK.Here is the link at AK http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...96&postcount=1

    WRT the woofers between the B,C version of the 416 there is supposed to be no difference.I personally feel they sound the same,with the C sounding a tad muddier compared to the B but it is very hard to discern IMHO. The Alnico's just have that warmer sound very hard to describe.But they do need to be recharged afthttp://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4081896&postcount=1er 20 years or thereabouts most definitely, that is the only drawback IMO.
    "James B. Lansing" = Lansing Manufacturing ~ Altec Lansing ~ JBL

  15. #30
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    Guys - Sorry I have not been here in awhile. I tried the TAD2001 and I think the stock 902-8A were the better match for the M19 and I put them back in. This makes me think Altec really knew what they were doing in matching this system including tailoring the crossover for this driver (or I cannot hear). Others may have a different experience.

    I then put this project down to build a Stax headphone adapter to allow me to use my Stax headphones with the Scott/Mapleshade amp.

    Now I am back to the crossover modification issue. So I want to do the ground lug bypass and I have visited the various threads. I understand that we want 3 jumper wires to attach to/between the ground lugs. But then how do we attach these to another common ground point somewhere? The negative speaker wire terminal - is it a true ground? Was confused by the discussion in some of the threads - is the latter the final connection one wants to make. Or is there another ground point somewhere on the chasis we want to connect one of the jumpers to?

    Thanks,

    Don

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