Talk to me about Horns!

[Loren42]

I have been doing some research, but still have many questions:

I know this is a bit subjective, but for HiFi, are high frequency compression horns a good driver pic? How do they compare to high quality dome tweeters with respect to distortion and clarity?

It appears that you can get a fairly wide frequency range with horns, which makes it easier to create a 2-way speaker. Also, horns appear to have a wider dispersion than many dome tweeters.

What are some of the downsides?

What effects do different horn types have when mated to a compression driver?

For instance, if you take a 2426H driver and mate it to a 2344A horn and then compare it to something like an A-480 that Yuichi Arai makes?

I would expect a different dispersion factor as well as a change in overall gain, but I suspect it is more complex than that.

[timc]

Also, horns appear to have a wider dispersion than many dome tweeters.

Well....Not really. A horn have a dispersion given by its directivety.

A typical dome have 180 degree dispersion in its lower working area, and then gets more beamy the higher you get.

The downside? Way more difficult to get right, but the reward is great IMO.

-Tim

[senor_mouse]

Hello ,

* are high frequency compression horns a good driver pic?

Yes .

* How do they compare to high quality dome tweeters with respect to distortion and clarity?

Depends on the horn , curve , material , and Hz , and driver too .

* It appears that you can get a fairly wide frequency range with horns, which makes it easier to create a 2-way speaker .

Yes , but it depends more on the crossover used and driver you select .

* What are some of the downsides?

- Good ones are expensive .
- Good drivers to match are expensive , general hard to find .
- Bass horns hard to build , and very big .

* What effects do different horn types have when mated to a compression driver?

- Old Altecs metal : Bad sound , very good dipersion , some people like .
- Old Altecs plastic : "Mantaray" , Better sound good dispersion , some people like .
- Old JBL metal : Dont like , sound "similar" to old Altec , some people like .
- New Tractrix wood : Excellent sound , but beams , not everybody likes .
- New Conic Metal : Havent heard , but I like more wood than metal .
- New Altec wood : Will try to build a Mantary clone .

Hope that help you .

[Loren42]

Here is my concept 4430 using my existing cabinets. I call it the P4430.

Uses my existing 2235H (note the new surrounds ) in their pyramid style cabinet with a 2235H horn grafted onto the front.

The horn would actually be made out of wood, stained, and then finished. Driver would be likely be the 2426H.

I sort of like the looks, but the girlfriend sadly said that there is no way that will do.

Anyway, it was at least an exercise in concept.

[Robh3606]

To properly time align the horn and woofer you need the horn baffle in front of the woofer baffle. Just like they are on a 4430. Keep that in mind. Read the AES article already linked in the posts to you.

Rob

[Ian Mackenzie]

I have been doing some research, but still have many questions:

I know this is a bit subjective, but for HiFi, are high frequency compression horns a good driver pic? How do they compare to high quality dome tweeters with respect to distortion and clarity?

It appears that you can get a fairly wide frequency range with horns, which makes it easier to create a 2-way speaker. Also, horns appear to have a wider dispersion than many dome tweeters.

What are some of the downsides?

What effects do different horn types have when mated to a compression driver?

For instance, if you take a 2426H driver and mate it to a 2344A horn and then compare it to something like an A-480 that Yuichi Arai makes?

I would expect a different dispersion factor as well as a change in overall gain, but I suspect it is more complex than that.

You appear to have already researched some horn types..its really a case of you trying a few out for your self and seeing what works in your environment.

The 2344a was meant to be an improvement on the older Altec horns used in the 70's. As to their characteristics they solve a lot of typical horn sound issues. The A -480 is totally different being 90 x 40 with flat on axis response. As I said you really need to compare them

[Ruediger]

Here is my concept 4430 using my existing cabinets. I call it the P4430.

Uses my existing 2235H (note the new surrounds ) in their pyramid style cabinet with a 2235H horn grafted onto the front.

The horn would actually be made out of wood, stained, and then finished. Driver would be likely be the 2426H.

I sort of like the looks, but the girlfriend sadly said that there is no way that will do.

Anyway, it was at least an exercise in concept.

Technically that should fit. You will need to mount a protective grill in front of the bass, and that allows for a mounting plate under the horn which is as thick as the grill. If the horn is a bit behind the ideal position then the direction of radiation is tilted a bit upward.

If Your girlfriend does not like black horns show her the pics in the following thread: http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ad.php?t=26986

Ruediger

[senor_mouse]

Beware of time aligment and high frequency response , also lower cut frequency of the horn must match near crossover frequency . If not you will end adding a supertweeter with Lpad directly to the amp .
Think of those issues also .

Sunny day in Viña del Mar Chile .

[felixx]

- Old Altecs metal : Bad sound , very good dipersion , some people like .

Bad sound because of the metal ringing or ....?
They have really very good dispersion.
An wood clone for 811,but ply not MDF I think will be a good choice.Maybe Yuichi Arai pages will be a good inspiration.

[hjames]

Bad sound because of the metal ringing or ....?
They have really very good dispersion.
An wood clone for 811,but ply not MDF I think will be a good choice.Maybe Yuichi Arai pages will be a good inspiration.

Can you spare the URL for the Yuichi Arai pages?

[pos]

Can you spare the URL for the Yuichi Arai pages?

http://www.geocities.jp/arai401204/H..._Speakers.html
http://www.geocities.jp/arai401204/Horn/A480/A480.html

[Loren42]

To properly time align the horn and woofer you need the horn baffle in front of the woofer baffle. Just like they are on a 4430. Keep that in mind. Read the AES article already linked in the posts to you.

Rob

Hi,

The front baffle of the cabinet is angled back 3.8°. I originally did this because these are floor standing speakers and I wanted the angle of projection at 90° to the listener sitting on a sofa and that is how they work.

The intent with the horn is to put the throat of the horn at the same alignment point with the woofer as it is in the actual 4430 cabinet. In my cabinet the woofer is recessed about .55", so the horn needs to be recessed the same amount into the baffle.

Anyway, the whole idea was conceptional. I am looking at alternatives to my current 3-way cabinet (same basic cabinet, but with a mid and tweeter where the horn is now), which has a number of issues.

Currently, the 3-way speaker alignment is not time aligned. Even though the woofer has a pretty shallow basket, the Audax mid and the Morel tweeter are even shallower.

I'll check out that read, thanks!

[senor_mouse]

Bad sound because of the metal ringing or ....?
They have really very good dispersion.
An wood clone for 811,but ply not MDF I think will be a good choice.Maybe Yuichi Arai pages will be a good inspiration.

Exactly metal ringing not for high end , but may be do not bother if you listen 3-4 meters away , so Old Altecs very good in theater application . Not intended for home , but lovely stuff . Metal ringing will drive you crazy if the driver has enough energy to make it resonate . Other issue is a "metal tone" a honk , not very nice in metal ones .
Wood clone for 811 maybe good , but very hard to manufacture , expensive . Better couple a 802 8G with some tractrix or conic . If you concern about beaming , better clone the little mantaray and match it with 1" driver .

[Loren42]

Read the AES article already linked in the posts to you.

Rob

That link from the other thread seems to be a dead end.

[Earl K]

That link from the other thread seems to be a dead end.

Try this ; The Link is now going to the Complete Thread ( ie; the AES Paper on the 4430 ).

:
Originally Posted by Robh3606
To properly time align the horn and woofer you need the horn baffle in front of the woofer baffle. Just like they are on a 4430. Keep that in mind. Read the AES article already linked in the posts to you.

Rob

Hi,
,,,,, snip ,,,,,,,
The intent with the horn is to put the throat of the horn at the same alignment point with the woofer as it is in the actual 4430 cabinet. In my cabinet the woofer is recessed about .55", so the horn needs to be recessed the same amount into the baffle.

- It appears that you don't understand acoustic alignment issues .

<> cheers