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Thread: L7's paired with Carver M-1.5t

  1. #1
    Senior Member Slare's Avatar
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    L7's paired with Carver M-1.5t

    I picked up a Carver M-1.5t amplifier through a CL trade. Got around to hooking it up to my L7's, using my Denon AVR-987 as a pre-amp.

    My impressions of the amplifier are that it has "hella" power output in such a nice little package, but it seems to be pretty harsh in the upper midrange. Compared to my original settings (using the Denon amps) I've pushed down the 4kHz/8Khz EQ a couple dB.

    My setup hasn't changed otherwise, and I'm quite familiar with the speakers, setup, and source materials. I'm curious about these findings, because to my understanding the M-1.5t is supposed to be "tuned" to be slightly warm/soft in the high end, and my subjective listening seems completely opposite.

    Just wondering if anyone has any experience or thoughts about the M-1.5t. I also have a Kenwood Basic M2A which is supposed to be a ruler true amp I may try swapping in to check. But it's a lot bigger and uglier with quite a bit less output. So I'd prefer to stick with the Carver.

    The one thing I will admit as a distinct possibility, is that I am just driving the L7's a lot harder now, as they will certainly play very clear all the way up to tapping the amp's clipping point. Such high volume is now possible that no sane person would listen (in my small room, at least) for any real amount of time.
    JBL doesn't want to sell you Performance Series speakers.

  2. #2
    Senior Member rdgrimes's Avatar
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    Send the Carver in for a refurb. With new output caps it will sound like a whole different amp. Cost is very reasonable.

    http://www.carveraudio.com/phpBB3/vi...php?f=4&t=7093

    If you send it there, there's a chance you can even get Bob Carver to sign the amp for you. There's another refurb shop in WA that's also very reasonable and good.

    Harshness in the mids and highs is pretty typical for old caps. I've had a number of the Carvers, some refurbed and some not. Side by side the difference is easy to hear.

    I use a Carver C1 preamp with mine. Clean and crisp as can be. And yes, the M-1.5t has insane amounts of power. At 8u it can deliver 600W peaks into either channel. The M500t sounds a lot like it and has those lovely big VU meters.

  3. #3
    Senior Member JBLAddict's Avatar
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    we have a little in common, I'm running an L7, L5, EC35 HT setup, looks like you have the same speakers, not sure if they're all in the HT?

    My AVR is a HK 354 and the L7s are powered through the pre-outs by a Soundcraftsmen S800 ('93 240WPC). The L7s sounded very good through the 75WPC AVR, but were weak in the mid bass and 3-5kHz range, once I bought the SC, it really came to life and at high volumes lost the breakup and stays strong and clean, I think it's a wonderful match, but again I don't own other amps to compare.....I followed TiD's recommendation to mate the L7 with Souncraftsmen and have been really happy...mids are crystal clear and highs are crisp and articulate, also have space to keep them 3' from the corners

    I've grown a little bored in the past couple months and have been itching to pickup a new amp to experiment, threads like this fuel that itch, but I don't want to drop hundreds on a crap shoot, rather am looking for someone to recommend a good L7 match to try out. You might want to also try a SC for comparison sake? Would be interesting to see how it compares to the KW and Carver

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    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    I went back and forth comparing a Soundcraftsmen Pro-Power-Four amp (same basic specs as an S800) to two different Crown PS-400s on a pair of L7s and eventually parked the SC in a spare rack. Nothing wrong with it but my ears just preferred the old Crowns, and I have SC pre-amp-EQs and pre-amp plus EQs in all my systems so I am a fan of the brand. Never hurts to swap electronics in an attempt to isolate the problem though.
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBLAddict View Post

    I've grown a little bored in the past couple months and have been itching to pickup a new amp to experiment, threads like this fuel that itch,

    am looking for someone to recommend a good L7 match to try out.
    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    Never hurts to swap electronics in an attempt to isolate the problem though.
    I've got three letters for you: ATI
    Out.

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    Senior Member BMWCCA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    I've got three letters for you: ATI
    $900 for a made-in-USA 120wpc amp with all the protection they're talking about doesn't seem like a bad deal. And that's MSRP, though they list no dealers. Amplifier Technology, Inc., Reseda, California Phone: 818-343-4777. Maybe, like Soundcraftsmen used to, they'll offer 25% off for direct orders.

    As a born-and-raised Midwesterner, I'll stick with my Elkhart, Indiana stuff.
    ". . . as you have no doubt noticed, no one told the 4345 that it can't work correctly so it does anyway."—Greg Timbers

  7. #7
    Senior Member rdgrimes's Avatar
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    Slare already has the right amp, it just needs some TLC, being >20 yrs old. He may have some issue on the pre-amp side, that's an unknown. The Carver has anti-clipping and speaker protection as well as other protections in place.

    For $200 and shipping he can have the amp in like-new condition.

    BTW, here's one that's already had the treatment at a very reasonable price:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

    Slare, if you want a manual for the M1.5t, I have it in pdf, (18MB) Also have service manuals.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Slare's Avatar
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    The guy I got the amp from said he would drop the manual in the mail but I figure it's about a 50/50 shot. Would love to have the manual if you can split it up to email or upload it somewhere.

    The 1.5t seems to be a really well matched solution by the specs (that's why I picked it up...) but I have a hard time putting ~$250 into refurbishment when I have no idea what the difference is going to be. It's hard to understand for some folks but I pick things up and upgrade when a good deal comes around, and $250 can be a pretty nice budget with careful shopping.

    The M2A basic will probably get hooked up this week for an A-B. It is supposed to be a very high quality S/S amp and having used it with other speakers I picked up no indication of sound discoloration. It's a solid 220x2 rms with ultra-low distortion and solid ~550 peak headroom.

    Far as the pre-amp goes, the AVR-987 is a very solid receiver and I'm quite confident it is doing its job. I do have some component pre-amplifiers but to be quite honest I have never thought my ears to be good enough to really tell the difference between one preamp or another, outside of things like noise floor or tone settings.

    Anyone have any pictures of a bone stock M-1.5t with the casing off? Given I don't know the history of the amp, I'd like to do some quick check to see if it has possibly been refurbished prior. It's in VERY nice condition and seems to have gotten some TLC over the years.
    JBL doesn't want to sell you Performance Series speakers.

  9. #9
    Senior Member rdgrimes's Avatar
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    Just look at the main (huge) output caps, there should be 2 large ones and maybe a couple smaller ones. It's usually easy to tell when they have been replaced with non-original caps cause the saddle they sit in doesn't fit newer caps. I've seen them replaced with 4 smaller ones or 2 of the original ratings. But if work was done by a pro, there should be some marking to that effect.

    Having done A-B comparison between M1.5t with new caps and one with original, I feel comfortable in saying you will hear a lot of difference - clarity, sharpness, etc. Not to mention better power peaks. A short version of the difference might be that with old caps it'll sound like it's clipping. It really is a "must-do" for an older amp. Carvers that have been properly refurbed are worth more than what original amps are worth. I've seem them go for $500 where $300 is about the max for an original amp. The M1.5t is the most desired. FWIW, the M500t can also be modded to output as much as the 1.5t does. If you can find another amp that will put out 600WPC peaks at those prices, buy it.

    I'll upload the manuals and drop you a link by PM.

  10. #10
    RIP 2021 SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWCCA View Post
    $900 for a made-in-USA 120wpc amp with all the protection they're talking about doesn't seem like a bad deal. And that's MSRP, though they list no dealers. Amplifier Technology, Inc., Reseda, California Phone: 818-343-4777.
    Effective October 20, 2003, BGW Systems has been acquired by Amplifier Technologies, Inc. All engineering, design, manufacturing, sales, marketing and administration will now be handled by Amplifier Technologies, Inc. All correspondence/inquiries regarding The New BGW should be made to:
    Amplifier Technologies, Inc.,
    1749 Chapin Road
    Montebello, California 90640.
    Phone: 323-278-0001
    Fax: 323-278-0083
    Email: [email protected]
    Some kind of happiness is measured out in miles

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    Senior Member JBLAddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium Dome View Post
    I've got three letters for you: ATI
    new or vintage, or does it matter for the L7?

  12. #12
    Senior Member JBLAddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post
    Slare already has the right amp
    have you mated the Carver with the L7 in particular? IIRC.. TiD saying he paired his with a Carver and they were "screaming in constant agony", unless it was another brand:dont-know

  13. #13
    Senior Member Slare's Avatar
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    I'm going to pop the case off the 1.5 sometime soon here to check out the internals. If it is still factory I think I've decided to have it refurbed. I've been looking at ~$500 or less 2-channel amplifiers for quite some time and outside of PA amplifiers, nothing I've seen really compares well to the package size, appearance, and output potential of the Carver.

    I have ~$120 in it as is. Figure refurbishment will end up costing me ~$230. So for $350 total, I'd be set for awhile.

    Alternatively, if I sell the amp (for ~$250) that would put me $130 up. So I could spend upwards of ~$480 on another venue. I want the ~300+ rms/ch power. I like the plain front panel with some sort of meters, and the short rack height. Short of PA amps, I haven't found much similar. But I'm open to suggestions.

    I will say, that I will post pics of the 1.5 internals once I have them. And if I have the amp refurbed, I will give an honest evaluation of before/after. There are so many differing opinions out there about this amp, I will be more than willing to muddy the waters even further if I drop two bills on refurbishment and can't tell the difference. I'm very suspicious of the placebo effect.

    I will say I have no doubt about the power output specs. I talked to one guy in particular that had an 1.5 and said he had a 50 watt/ch Sansui that outdid it. I'd have to say he had a bad one.

    BTW I picked up a H/K AVR-254 last night on BB clearance ($170 w/ 4 year warranty). It has lesser built-in power than the Denon AVR-987 but has some updated surround codecs, nicer video processing & switching (1080p DCDi), and looks very nice. The Denon carried an original street price of ~$800, H/K around $500 far as I can tell, but it's a year or so newer. Ironically I've now gotten them both under two bills so from that respect they are about the same to me.

    Any opinions about the two?

    The Denon has been rock solid for me. Mildly confusing setup and pretty poor GUI, but after setup functionally it has been great. The H/K has a reputation for being quite temperamental on the video side, but it is supposed to have very sweet SQ. No doubt I'll be keeping them both but now I'm a little torn on which will be on lead.
    JBL doesn't want to sell you Performance Series speakers.

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    I replaced a 200wpc Sansui with a Carver M1.5T that I bought off rdgrimes. I like the Carver better, but the Sansui does need to be gone thru. I'm not using L7 speakers so I don't know how relevant my opinion would be, I'm happy with the amp for several months now. I'll send it back to Carver one of these days to get it spruced up, but it sounds pretty good as is IMHO.

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    I had a Carver TM 35, one side goes cablooie takes out an L 100. Then a C-1 preamp has paint flaking off the knobs [cheap paint over last year's chrome plastic?]. Then some snug RCA's pulled the gilded covers right out of a C-24 preamp tuner. Just bought another C-1 with a 1.5T and a C-11 tuner [and a pair of L150's] for $500 [yes, good score] guy had all boxes and receipts, including 3 repairs on the 1.5t! No more Carver for me. Under $500? Crown PS 400 would work, although a little bright.

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