How much longer before JBL runs dry in US?

[Vintage Spk]

Dumb question here…what makes older model JBL so cool to have?
History, build and sound quality? If so why JBL has zero presence in US consumer market if other brand can excel in mid. and high-end category still?

How long can US diehards sustain the brand name in secondhand market before all complete older speaker sets diminish, and replace components run dry…people in US does not even recognize JBL as US based corporation. Foreign $$$ that much better than local $$$? Even locals can’t find/buy local.

[Cooljjay]

Dumb question here…what makes older model JBL so cool to have?

Well I love older audio, I just happened to come across a old set of jbls, I must admit they sound awesome, and I am hooked.

people in US does not even recognize JBL as US based corporation. Foreign $$$ that much better than local $$$? Even locals can’t find/buy local.

I agree with that most all of our vintage audio is going over sea's not much is left in the us, but this could be said for most things. I am the only one I know of in my generation that collects vintage audio, what happens when the older crowd passes and theres no young people interested in this stuff? Its possible that the market will just die off and there will be no $$$ for any of it. But for now the prices keep going up. I would love to make my pair matching but I could never afford the prices at this moment. Whats the future hold for vintage audio???

[brad347]

Here is my opinion about what makes JBL so good to have:

The eras of older JBL represent something that I like in a product--

It seems like at one point in history, companies tried to out-sell their competition by out-performing them. In other words, the attitude was "We will always build the best product there is--we will best our competition fair-and-square and we will thrive." There was trust in the consumer and a faith that they would be willing to pay for quality. The lower-end products in their range were not lower in build quality and construction than the high-end models, typically-- they rather were more limited in their performance and flexibility. "You get what you pay for," honestly, of course.

It seems that at some point in history-- the late 1960s seem to be when the tide started to turn in a lot of areas-- the prevailing ethos changed to a more cynical attitude toward the consumer.

Companies started trying to out-sell their competition not by offering superior products, but rather by offering comparable products for lower cost, with greater convenience, and in smaller packages.

Instead of "make it better," companies decided to "make it cheaper." They started looking for ways they could compromise the product with the attitude of either "the consumer won't know the difference," or "the consumer will choose a product with 80% of the performance of the best if it comes at 50% the cost" or "if it is 20% smaller in size." This included printed circuit board construction, lower-cost components, outsourced manufacturing, product re-tooling to allow for cheaper unskilled labor or small size, etc.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm sure there were always "bargain" products, but it seems that at some point this attitude started to spill over into even the supposedly "good" products. And I can respect a product with a good price/performance ratio, and appreciate that it has brought unprecedented levels of performance to people who wouldn't have otherwise been able to attin it. But I lament the fact that this paradigm has made the "high-end" market in many areas into a "boutique" sector subject to all kinds of hype, overcharging, etc. And, not least, the assumption that the high-end consumer will be wealthy (I am far, far from it).

Vintage JBL is appealing to me because it is one of those old companies that tried to make it better as opposed to making it cheaper. And they did it for a long time, too... the JBL name has been watered down a bit in the consumer market in the last few decades, maybe, but at least well into the 1970s and maybe even 1980s ALL of the stuff JBL offered was high quality, regardless of its price range. The stuff was made with care and is of the highest quality, and they did actual R&D to improve and advance their product, not just to find ways to make it smaller, cheaper, more convenient. Quality never goes out of style, and a lot of that old JBL stuff outperforms most of the stuff on the market today in similar price ranges, in my opinion (though I am far from an audiophile expert).

The old JBL stuff strikes me not as something you had to be part of a special elite club to buy-- you just had to value quality and be willing to pay for it, whether you were flush with cash or were just a regular guy who had to save up for months to get it. I like that. There's not a ton of that left.

JBL reminds me of old Fender guitars pre-1965, old Neve recording consoles pre-buyout, Moog synthesizers pre-Norlin, Blue Note Records pre-1968, etc.

The vision of one man or a few men dedicated to quality and who loved what they were producing without cynicism-- and who actually took pride in offering the highest quality with a very real brand identity..

And that segues nicely... I believe as long as there are people who appreciate vintage JBL, they will not 'dry up.' They might get more expensive, but the interest will keep them in the spotlight. Witness Fender guitars... how many of those were parted out, modded, etc. in the 1980s and 1990s? And they are still being parted out today. However, they are still turning up under beds and in basements, are worth more than ever, etc.

And the fact that the demand outstrips the supply means that people are digging up the parts from those hacked-up and parted-out guitars and repairing/restoring them because their value now justifies the expense.

[Doc Mark]

Morning, Brad,

Well said, Sir, and spot on the money!!! Couldn't agree more!! I remember, back when I first joined the Musician's Union, as a young musician: If you had a Union card, you got a 10% discount at music stores for equipment, rentals, and such, including JBL. If you were not a working, professionial musician, you paid full retail price, with NO discounts, PERIOD!! Nobody complained about this setup, as it seemed normal and natural. Back then, when you paid your money, you bought things from people who were experienced, and who had the proper knowledge to help educate you about what you were buying. You also got cheerful service after the sale. Fast forward to today: Everyone whores out their products, which they have made as cheaply as possible, for the lowest possible price: quality is a thing of the past; knowledgable sales people are a thing of the past; product longevity is a thing of the past..... Have we gotten better, or far worse? I guess you know where I come down on that question!!

Without doubt, the JBL Legacy systems, and associated systems, are better than most of what anyone has in their homes these days, period!! The quality is better, the result is better, and the longevity is OBVIOUSLY better!! Yesterday, whilst listening to some great music on our L300's, I asked my wife, "Hon, do we know anyone who has such a fine system in their homes"? To which she replied, "Nobody by our JBL friends"!! "Nuff said, right?!!

Again, well said, my Friend!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[robertbartsch]

I would have to say vintage JBL systems are inferior to the current JBL professional offerings.

They are looked upon as iconic masterpieces but recent advaces in technology have resulted in significant improvements which are largely ignored by folks visiting this cite.

Example: Compare an older L300 to a two-way system of 2226 and 2426 and see for yourself.

[Tom Brennan]

Well I was recently in the market for new speakers and willing to spend a little too. JBL has so many lines that one wonders which ones JBL themselves considers really good. They have such a confusing mish-mosh of product, much of it trashy and kubuki appearing, that I never even considered new JBLs.

Now I'm a guy with some knowledge of JBL and who has owned a fair amount of JBL gear and if I wasn't considering JBL one wonders who is.

.

[4313B]

I would have to say vintage JBL systems are inferior to the current JBL professional offerings.

They are looked upon as iconic masterpieces but recent advaces in technology have resulted in significant improvements which are largely ignored by folks visiting this cite.

Example: Compare an older L300 to a two-way system of 2226 and 2426 and see for yourself.

This is true but the beauty is that something as ancient as an L300 is still "better" than most of the "stuff" being currently offered in the marketplace today regardless of what advances their respective manufacturers might have made. JBL is also a lifestyle for alot of people.

It could be interesting to see someone LEAP a new network for an old L300 system. There's just never enough time...

[Akira]

I would have to say vintage JBL systems are inferior to the current JBL professional offerings.
Example: Compare an older L300 to a two-way system of 2226 and 2426 and see for yourself.

What are you comparing? A compression driver to a speaker?
Yes, I agree that the elite systems of today benefit from 40 years of technology? And certainly drivers of all types have also benefited.

But, the old 2441 was a mighty fine driver and has nothing to be ashamed of even compared to the more advanced drivers of today. Better, probably not but still excellent.
Remember, the old legacy systems had a certain sound. They suited the fine master pieces of music production of that period in time. I know my original L100's sounded better with the same era Harmon Kardon Citation preamp/amp combo than the newest Brystons out there today even though they are better in the specs department.

By extension, does an 8100 series Neve console sound inferior to the top consoles of today? Well it can certainly be out oerformed....40 years of technology it does not have the benefit of.

[4313B]

Yes, I agree that the elite systems of today benefit from 40 years of technology? And certainly drivers of all types have also benefited.

And one pays the price. The current L300 Summit "equivalent" would probably be the S4800 and the current S22 "equivalent" would arguably be the K2-S9900. 4333B => 4338, etc.

[MikeBrewster77]

Well I was recently in the market for new speakers and willing to spend a little too... I never even considered new JBLs.

I hear ya - just went through a very similiar situation. Not that I didn't consider JBL (to the contrary, I lusted after several different possibilities, specifically the LS series) but the lack of domestic availability killed that idea. Worse yet, I'm not convinced that what I did purchase (while lovely speakers) sound any better in my listening environment and coupled with my gear than the Control 10's they were intended to replace. I'm actually contemplating re-selling them after about a month .

Now I'm a guy with some knowledge of JBL and who has owned a fair amount of JBL gear and if I wasn't considering JBL one wonders who is.

The Japanese, but then again, they get the good shit (like the aforementioned LS series) and it's readily available and carried in retail outlets. The rest of us are screwed because Harman is apparently quite content getting 70% of their revenue from the automotive segment.

I would have to say vintage JBL systems are inferior to the current JBL professional offerings.

I'd have to agree that in many cases this is likely so (and really should be.) The Control 10's I mentioned earlier (discontinued, but hardly a heritage system) sound better than many of the vintage JBL's I've heard. Then again, side by side I personally prefer my Control 5's to my L46's for presence and accuracy; the L46's however have a distinctive sound that I would describe as extremely pleasant, if not unyieldingly accurate. In short, while vintage JBL still beats a whole lot of what's produced today, I would certainly hope that 30+ years of R&D would produce a superior product

In terms of affinity for vintage, that can likely be chalked up to nostalgia, aesthetics, availability, brand loyalty, superior ROI than comparably priced new gear, preference for a certain "type" of sound, and any other myriad of personal factors that drive individual tastes.

[Akira]

It could be interesting to see someone LEAP a new network for an old L300 system. There's just never enough time...

Yes, I think this is one area that is superior today.
Drivers too are better.
But as the old JBL literature used to say, "a speaker is more than the sun of it's parts."
Perhaps the question should be is, how much better are speaker systems today.
I haven't heard the new offerings from Westlake, but the old ones could give anything on the market today a run for the money.

[robertbartsch]

Well, after owning many JBL vintage and professional series systems over the years, I kinda chucle at folks spending big bucks for vintage equipment.

Yeh, they are still very capable systems 40 years or so after their manufacture, but, for the most part, I fail to see the value in these transactions.

I thought the recent deep economic recession would impact vintage prices but, so far, this does not seem to be the case. In many cases, these systems must be evaluated based on a crude picture and the words of sellers. Obviously, after being burned a few times on E-bay, I am somewhat reluctant to purchase there - knowing that my chances with relatively new professional series drivers will, typically be much better.

[brad347]

I think it's dicey to say vintage JBLs are "inferior" to the new offerings.

It depends on what you mean by "inferior."

Do you mean "less accurate?" Okay, fair enough. Less transparent? Less linear? less whatever? Fine.

But for JBLs that I use to listen to music at home, the only thing I care about is "How pleasing are they to listen to?" And I find the old JBLs have a certain sound, a certain character, that I find appealing when listening-- especially when listening to certain types or eras of music.

I would say it depends upon your application. If you are listening for pleasure, a bit of euphony/flattery and character might be welcome. If you are monitoring in a studio, you probably want accuracy and honesty.

I have studio monitors in my home studio, I frequently use other, nicer studio monitors in various locations, and I have a set of vintage JBLs in my living room for pleasure-listening.

Apples and oranges, in my world. The monitors are more "accurate" and objectively "outperform" the JBLs in many respects-- but I enjoy the JBLs more for pleasure listening.

I seem to remember reading that part of the ethos of "old JBL" was to not get so caught up in numbers and spectrum analysis, and instead to focus on how the speakers sounded-- the ear test. Well, after all this time, many of those old speakers still pass the "ear test" to me even if there are others (including modern JBLs, with which I have admittedly limited experience) that pass the "math test" better.

Different strokes, I guess!

[hjames]

Lemme see - both of the big systems I bought were in-person buys - I drove there with a truck and cash for a possible sale.
If I didn't like the look, the feel, the sound of the systems, they would not have happened.
Even my recent L100T deal was a drive by purchase ...

Do people really buy L300s or 434x Monitors based on some unknown seller's word?
Often?

The eBay stuff I buy is generally under $250, paid with a VISA card so I can reverse the charge if the seller tries to burn me ... out of 250 deals, only 3 have ...

The newest speakers I owned were L820CH-H I bought from Harmon Direct - thought they'd be a worthy upgrade from the L20T in the back of my room ... didn't care for the plastic wood look, the sound was nothing special, resold them about a month later and didn't look back.

Well, after owning many JBL vintage and professional series systems over the years, I kinda chuckle at folks spending big bucks for vintage equipment.

Yeh, they are still very capable systems 40 years or so after their manufacture, but, for the most part, I fail to see the value in these transactions.

[mike]

After years of messing around with this stuff I have made an observation, the older JBL stuff was simply put a different type of product. I realize that technology has improved and they can now make very inexpensive speakers that measure well and do all of the audiophile tricks even better than the old stuff, but much of the appeal of the older JBL stuff was in owning something of very high quality. I remember reading a review of the L300 in an old magazine that said "like all JBL loudspeakers the L300 is as much a work of art as it is a loudspeaker".

Mike