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Thread: Which Components Should I Use?

  1. #1
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    Which Components Should I Use?

    Hi Guys,

    I have been accumulating some JBL components over the years to maybe one day build a JBL (the best!) speaker system. I have done a bit of testing and think I have the correct combination but I do not have the Knowledge or experience with these components and speaker building as some of you guys do. I figured before I go ahead with my project I would list what components I have for you guys to see and see if you agree or not with what I plan on doing. I will list number of components and their model number,here goes:
    Drivers:

    2-2404H (ferrite? the newer magnet design)
    3-2405 16 ohm (J?) Alnico
    1-2405H ferrite (need diaphragm)

    1-2426J
    1-2425H
    4-2425J (two of them have a 2327 attached)
    2-2470 16 ohm Alnico (with 183-309's attached)
    1-2445J (need diaphragm)
    2-2482 16 ohm Alnico (with phenolic diaphragms)

    2-2118J
    2-2012H

    2-2226J
    2-2225H

    Horns:
    1-2370
    5-2370A
    2-2386
    2-2380A
    1-2397 (with 2328 attached)
    1-2309
    1-231? last number is missing Accoustic Lens (is big and attached to 2309)

    Crossovers:
    4-3110A

    Miss.
    1-Kitchen Sink (wave guide)

    The components I have decided to use per side (well up to this point) is:
    1-2405
    1-2425 with 2370A
    1-2012
    1-2226

    These speakers will be used with a domestic home theater receiver, these speakers will be the front left and right. I was thinking (if at all possbile) to split the signal coming out of the receiver (for eg. to the left speaker), take one side of the split signal and with resistors bring it down to line level, plug it into a Peavey IA 10/4 Interface Amplifier (I am using one now for my subs) then into an electronic Xover then into a power amp to power the 2226's. The other side of the split signal will power the other three components. I am reading up on how to make Xovers, I have made some simple ones in the past no more than second order, I'm new to this and my knowledge of electronics is not that great. I have the 3110A's but they cross over at 800Hz so I figured I could not use them?

    I also plan on building a center channel using the 2397 with either the 2445 (with new diaphragm, alum, titanuim or other?) or maybe a 2482 with the phenolic, I hear they were designed for voice or midrange and there is a lot of that content in a HT center channel? Along with the horn maybe the 2118s with a 2405?

    So there you have it, do you think I am on the right track?

    Kevin.

  2. #2
    Senior Member SMKSoundPro's Avatar
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    Wow! That's quite a list.

    If you are going for a 4-way:

    2235
    2012
    2425/2370a
    2405

    Jbl did it, and it works. Others may question the choice of 2012.

    Or if 3-way:

    2235
    3110a xover
    2425/2370a
    3106 xover
    2405

    Looks like an L300, doesn't it.

    Or if 2-way:

    1-2235
    1-2425/ 2370a
    1-3110a xover

    Or if high output Rock and Roll:

    2- 2226
    1- 3110a xover
    1- 2445/ 2309 horn w/2310 serpentine lense
    1- 3106 xover
    1- 2405 for sizzle.

    In other words:

    You have many different parts. Make a plan for the L & R main speakers; a plan for the center channel; and if you're doing a single or double sub...then do it.

    Sell off the other parts and never look back!

    Many DIY guys are doing the same thing and always looking for parts. Get what you need and sell the other stuff to the other DIY guys.

    And above all...

    Keep it simple!!!


    Scotty.
    One step above: "Two Tin Cans and a String!"
    Longtime Alaskan Low-Fi Guy - E=MC² ±3db

  3. #3
    Senior Member SMKSoundPro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderboy View Post
    Hi Guys,
    Horns:
    1-2370
    5-2370A
    2-2386
    2-2380A
    1-2397 (with 2328 attached)
    1-2309
    1-2310 last number is missing Accoustic Lens (is big and attached to 2309)

    Kevin.
    see correction
    One step above: "Two Tin Cans and a String!"
    Longtime Alaskan Low-Fi Guy - E=MC² ±3db

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    Which Components Should I Use?

    Thanks for the input Scotty! I am trying to keep it simple, when I first came on this forum with my crazy ideas (Drew Daniels type of system) I was full of piss and vinegar to make this super powerful, blow you away system (one of my buddies is nuts over heavy rock bands from the 80's so I guess I wanted to impress him), but after doing some testing of the drivers together, I realized that "less is more" (got that from a man of experience on this forum). So I down sized my vision to reality and what really works. That's a good plan to sell what I don't use but I am a bit of a pack rat and figure somewhere down the line I might want to build another speaker or two so I will most likely hang onto them. (pass them onto my grand kids,ha!)

    The 2235 you mention, I guess with it's number it came out after the 2226? What model was the four way system that JBL came out with that is similar to my design? Was it the 4344 monitor?

    Kevin.

    P.S. Thanks for filling in the last digit of the lens.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderboy View Post
    The components I have decided to use per side (well up to this point) is:
    1-2405
    1-2425 with 2370A
    1-2012
    1-2226
    That combination of drivers looks OK, but you may have problems getting passive crossovers lined up easily. What I'd do is use a passive only for the VHF 2405, around 7K or 8K, and use an active 3-way crossover for the rest, each range with its own amp. Of course, you'll need some sort of EQ with that, looking at the different response characteristics of the different drivers. But I think you could get it sounding fairly good, and capable of prodigious, (sp?), output if desired.

    John

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    Thanks for the input Johnaec. I kind of really wanted to avoid active filtering except for the mid-bass (2226's). Previously I designed another system using (God forbid) vintage Tannoy driver's along with a mix of planar mids and tweeters using an all active crossover system and I had nothing but trouble, ground noise, hum, buzz etc. I had to scrap the whole thing. I also don't have the cash for more amps, I have the active crossovers though, from that same system. Maybe later I could give it a try, from all I have read, active is the way to go! As far as super high sp levels, I myself am getting to old for that and would like to keep my hearing, when my buddy comes over, I have these cool little foam ear plugs I roll up and insert them into my ears, he does not even see them.

    Thanks again.

    Kevin.

  7. #7
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hello Kevin

    The driver components in a 4344 are a 2235/2122/2425 on a 2307/2405.
    One advantage is we have equivalent passive networks, thanks to 4313, for that driver combo. If you want to go passive you are going to have to work out the networks for whatever combo you decide on. Active will work but you are going to need an EQ to help unless you go with a digital speaker management system.

    If you want sub 40Hz bass in your mains to use them as stand alone stereo music speakers a 2235 would be a better woofer. If you are going to use a sub for them you might want to use a 12" like a 2206 and forget the lower midrange driver.

    For HT L/R are not as important as the center. For stereo obviously the mains really count. How are you going to be using this system most??

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

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    What Components Should I Use?

    Hi Rob, thanks for the reply. I think I will have to attempt to work out a passive crossover network, at least give it a try. I do have a Behringer DSP unit, had it for years not even opened yet! Thing is, with a domestic system it is RCA jacks and the pro stuff is XLR so it's a real pain. I had a couple JBL 12" mid-woofers and ended up giving them to my "buddy" along with a couple 2370A's but I kept the JBL 2425's for myself and installed a couple of Eminence drivers instead, he was happy with the sound he got.

    This system will be 99.9% home theater, so the center channel rules. The reason I really almost have to use the 2012's is that these are the only units I bought brand new and paid FULL price for, two for $700.00, all the rest of the drivers and horns I got on ebay or cheap from guys I know. Did you see my other question on which driver to use on a HT center channel?

    Thanks Rob,

    Kevin.

  9. #9
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hello Kevin

    You know the bottom line is you want something you will be happy with. 4 ways are a PITA to get right. It seems you have tried DIY with Tannoys and it didn't work out. It is always easier to start with a known system than to start cold with a driver set with no baseline. With the driver combo's you have available there are plenty that can work as other have pointed out. I would stick to known combinations first and work from there if you feel the need.

    For my center I use a cloned Urei 811C monitor. To me the vocals are paramount and a time aligned coax driver works, suites my needs just fine and covers the required range using a sub.

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

  10. #10
    Senior Member Baron030's Avatar
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    Quoted by Kevin:
    The components I have decided to use per side (well up to this point) is:
    1-2405
    1-2425 with 2370A
    1-2012
    1-2226
    Hi Kevin
    If you really want to go with these drivers then I would suggest going with either an active 3-way or 4-way electronic crossover network.
    Johnaec is right about possibly using a passive crossover for the 2405 driver and an electronic 3-way for the rest.
    Since, the high frequency drivers are much more efficient.
    The power requirements for these are about a tenth of what is required for the lower frequency drivers.

    In my own system, I like the 2226 drivers for their punchy bass.
    But, their response really does falls off below 40Hz.
    And from what I read, the 2235 will go almost another octave lower.
    So, you should take that into account in your own design considerations.
    And ask yourself is that lowest octave important to you or not?

    Now, I know that in my own case.
    That if at some point, I should start feeling bass deprived for that bottom octave.
    I can always take two 2242s, and call my doctor in the morning.
    Now, if I could just find the room for two Widget boxes…

    The 2012H Maximum Output 250mm midrange/mid-bass does have it challenges.
    The 2012 driver has a rising on-axis response that does require some EQ for it to sound right.
    In my own system, I use a passive parallel trap circuit between a crown K1 and the 2012H driver to flatten the response over a 300 to 1200Hz range.

    Here is a link to my 2012 passive EQ circuit: http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=20823

    Unfortunately, I don’t think that this simple parallel trap circuit could be added to a passive crossover network without other major modification.
    So, it’s really only a solution for systems that are using active crossover networks.

    And as far as the 2425/2370A combination and the 2405 drivers are concerned, there have been some posting covering this ground.
    So, there are passive crossover network solutions for these drivers.

    Good luck with your project,
    Baron030

  11. #11
    Senior Member Doc Mark's Avatar
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    Hello, Baron030, and All,

    This has been an interesting thread, as are many here at LH! Baron030, once again, you have answered a good question for me, even though it was actually unasked! Thanks, my Friend!! I've been wondering how, when I eventually get time for all this, I would incorporate the subwoofer I wish to build with a planned 4-way system, using the Ashly XR-4001 electronic crossover that I recently bought. Your solution was easy, elegant, and so simple that it never occurred to me: use a good passive crossover for the 2405's!!! Thanks, very much for that tip, as it obviates one more little niggling problem, and I've filed it away in my system plans!! Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
    The only thing that can never be taken away from you, is your honor. Cherish it, in yourself, and in others.

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    Which Components Should I Use?

    Well Rob I hear what you're saying, I know I will be going out on a limb but I really have my heart set on a four way system and I know if I don't give it a go I know I won't be happy, so I guess I am the type that has to learn from my mistakes. The Tannoy thing was a pretty good sounding system but it was the bad grounding noises that made me pack it in. I am now a little leary of a set up of power amps and an active crossover, it could have also been a defect in the power amps I was useing, it's a long story.

    Baron030 has given me hope that maybe I can make the drivers I have work. Now that I think of it, I do have three power amps I could use, I knew I had the one older Yorkville 3000 but I have a Bryston 4B-ST along with a cheaper Kenwood amp somewhere in the back of the closet. Baron030 seems pretty familiar with the 2012 and has even developed a passive EQ circuit for it. Baron if you are reading this, that picture of your speakers under your name when you post, what drivers and horns are those? That looks like exactly what I want to build, I have a couple of 2380a horns here I prefered to use over the 2370a's.

    Kevin

  13. #13
    Senior Member Baron030's Avatar
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    Hi Kevin

    My system uses the following JBL components: 2226H, 2012H, 2382a/2446H, and a 2405H.
    If you do a search on my old posting, you should find several things that will be helpful for your own DIY project.

    Here is a link to the posting that describes my system:
    http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=11664

    Baron030

  14. #14
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    I know if I don't give it a go I know I won't be happy, so I guess I am the type that has to learn from my mistakes.
    Well that's a good thing what is the worst thing that can happen?? What tools do you have?? You are going to need some kind of basic measurement system and some design software for the crossover. Do you have anything now??

    Rob
    "I could be arguing in my spare time"

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    Which Components Should I Use?

    Thanks Baron, I will check it out!

    Well Rob to be honest with you I'm not much of an electronics guy, but I try hard. The way I have been testing my speakers in the past is with a good old fashioned (modified) Radio Shack SPL meter and a CD with many freq. test tones, from about 10Hz to 20kHz and a pen and paper. After so many tests, I transfer the data to graph paper to give me an idea of the drivers freq. response. (is that 'old school' or what?)

    On my last post I mentioned I might try to go all active, well except for the VHF but not a hundred percent sure. I figured I could use Baron's EQ and all would be fine, I would give it a listen and if it sounds good, hey I'm happy but I guess a measurement test would be good too but I think you electronic's guy's are more into that and I guess I don't blame you (my son is in university for Engineering, I can relate) but I give a lot of credit to my ears. I have this older model Behringer DSP 8024 unit ( new in box, not even opened), I think it has the capabilities to measure my system, I bought a mic. to go with it, it has "room correction" features.

    I think at the moment before I go any further, the first step would be to see if I can get the output signal from my HT receiver down to line level and see if I can get it to work with my Rane electronic Xover and amps, if not, it's passive all the way, could be scary! (and frustrating )

    Kev.

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