[quote=4313B;225894]I almost included the L212 since some people did take the bases off and put them on shelves but...
OMG, that is crazy... or at least my knee-jerk reaction to that idea.
How about L65s on a shelf? I put L65s on 18" stands, which works great except for loosing some bass reinforcement. Rambling off topic here...
Last edited by coherent_guy; 10-31-2008 at 04:37 AM. Reason: Removed incorrect statement about L212s.
Well... there was also the guy who took the bases off and bolted three L212 side panels to the wall behind his perf screen... L-C-ROriginally Posted by coherent_guy
Actually, that was the only way I heard them. I didn't hook them up to PS1400's. I ran them off an AVR7200, and had them set to 'large'. I compared them directly to a pair of L212's (no B212's).That could be interesting... the L110 obviously has the better LF transducer but the 4410 has the better midrange and, arguably, the better HF dome (depending on whether one prefers titanium over phenolic).
What would be the definition of "bookshelf" speakers? Requiring a stand to be at optimum listening height? Small enough to fit on a standard bookshelf?
The L60T/L80T/L100T family are all free standing, "tower-type" speakers. You would have to have a heck of a strong bookshelf to hold them!
The L100 and its similar sized family members are, in my opinion, also too big to be considered "bookshelf" speakers.
I have a pair of L2600s, which I would consider true "bookshelf" size.
Just curious, is there an industry accepted size, or is it a "in the eye of the beholder" thing?
My opinion has always been that the L112/4411/120Ti-sized box represents the largest of the "bookshelf" class. I think maybe the 4425 or 4428 are a little larger but I could be wrong. I don't feel like looking them up to find out.
While they are large, I've had the L100s on shelves many times over the years, starting with a several year stint in my dorm room where they were on built-in shelves over the windows. They had to lie on their sides and about four inches of speaker hung over the edge. They sounded pretty good that way.
My L60Ts might fit on shelves if laid on the sides, and my XPL160s would also do that in an odd way because of the cabinet shape, except both would have porting issues (ports on back). They're obviously meant to stand upright and be placed away from walls.
Unless you have a bookcase or shelves that are freestanding with no backs on them, any rear-ported speaker is not really a bookshelf speaker. So I think a real bookshelf speaker is either sealed or front ported, regardless of what the manufacturer calls it. There are lots of small three-way "bookshelf" speakers that are rear ported that work fine on stands but would suffer if placed on shelves.
Out.
There was a fun picture here (can't find it now ) of L250's on the floor "BASE TO BASE" ....flat long sides down, the 2 of them making a funny triangle....with the componets in the middle, stacked up high as the 2 bottoms.
Bookshelves is a silly term anyway, dont have many shelves that can take the weight of 2 L166's
Some kind of happiness is measured out in miles
Correct me if I'm wrong. The L212 has an internal XO @ 70Hz and the PT800 has no internal XO. So any direct comparison is flawed unless a 70Hz XO is applied to the PT800.
The L212 side panels run full range. The 112H rolls off naturally below ~ 70 Hz at ~ 12 dB/octave due to the closed box. (If you want to split hairs it is actually a bit more complicated than that, the acoustic crossover of the L212 is ~ 70 Hz where both the 121H and 112H are ~ 8 to 9 dB down at the crossover point). The 908Ti in the PT800 behaves similarly in its sealed box.
Any box you put a driver in acts like a high pass filter. Sealed boxes are ~12 dB/octave high pass filters, vented boxes are ~ 18 to 24 dB/octave high pass filters, passive radiator boxes are ~ 30 dB/octave high pass filters and 6th order assisted vented boxes are ~ 36 dB/octave high pass filters. One problem with vented boxes though... the driver unloads below box resonance. Not a problem if you use a subsonic filter or keep an eye on the power input.
The B212 has a passive line level 12 dB/octave low pass filter (staggered poles though! one is set at something like 45 or 50 Hz and the second at something like ~ 60 or 70 Hz which acts like an EQ cut filter) in front of the amplifier that rolls off above ~ 70 Hz.
I was thinking the same thing and I have run them full range. On a lot of music, especially on vinyl, there isn't a whole lot below 40 anyway.
As with the L212, I've run them full range, at moderate volume, but they won't go as low as the L212. For starters the L212's 112A is a beast of a mid-bass and will roll off around 40htz, maybe lower.
I'm going by the spec sheet, which states XO at 70-800-3000.
But the 70 htz becomes more like 40 htz with a full signal.
When given a full range signal the 112A/H buts out quite a bit of bass. Depending on the music being played, you can forget you don't have the sub on. I've done it.
JBL typically publishes acoustic crossover frequencies, not electrical.
Like I said, the 112H and the 908Ti roll off naturally in their sealed boxes. They have no electrical high pass filters on them.
***
L212 - Note voltage drives of the L212 and B212 ( #6 #7 #10 )as well as measured response of L212 and B212 independently (#16 ).
Here's the 112A in it's little 0.4 cu ft box.
That's down more than I thought it was, I thought I remembered reading the 112 was only down 3db @ 70 htz. But that slope shows I remember wrong.
But in any case, the L212 sounds very good run full range.
I've only heard the 4410 and L100. 4410 gets my vote.
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