was swapping some componets today and re-routing cables/power leads from the back of the rack and noticed....all 14 items were made in the 20th century. And it all still sounds great !
Which leads me to ponder : Is the golden age of affordable, high quality gear gone ? I mean none of my gear is plastic, no speaker is black ash crap finish , none of it is from China , the owners manuals are in English only , and it all will prolly outlast me (with minimal maintenance)
Let me balance you by stating that everything I've bought in the 21st Century is better than anything I have from the 20th in the areas that matter to me.
Let me run down the list:
amplifiers: check
pre/pros: check
DVD players: check
speakers: check
power sequencers: check
switches: check
Admittedly, some of it might have been designed, conceived, or descended from 1990s technological innovations, but if we apply the 21st Century rule strictly, that's when it hit the market. I'll have to concede that I haven't purchased a turntable or tape deck in the 21st Century, so I can't say about those.
As for affordability, the past is generally more affordable than the present, especially allowing for inflation.
As for this:
I'd have to say it's irrelevant to me. I care about other things more than these, though these are important to you and I recognize that. The main thing is each of us is pleased with what we have.I mean none of my gear is plastic, no speaker is black ash crap finish , none of it is from China , the owners manuals are in English only , and it all will prolly outlast me (with minimal maintenance)
Out.
I've spent much of the past two decades buying used the stuff I couldn't afford new in the Seventies. So, for me, the golden age is still around. I answered the poll with some ambivalence since I realize now I may never be able to afford the large JBLs, like the L300 or the large-format monitors from that period, mostly due to escalating prices (and college tuition for three kids). But by the same token, I've been able to buy a perfect Crown PS-400s for a hundred bucks, and 4412A, L5, and L7s for at or under $200 each pair. Considering the sound of those "black ash" towers, I'd have to say there's still some gold in them thar hills.
Can't tell if you were referring to the escalating prices on vintage stuff or the high cost of comparable equipment new these days, but there's not much new stuff out there that interests me. Maybe some day a surround-sound pre-amp with remote control, when they become more common and affordable. I often dream about Soundcraftsmen coming back and making a killer unit for $400, but then I wake up.
Interesting poll and I'm sure it will create an interesting thread.
030 C35/C37
L112
L150A
4412A
L20t
L26
L5
L7
I think that in order to answer this question you need to put “affordable” into a context.
Are you talking about when the stuff was new? Many of the speakers and other gear on here that are frequently discussed were fairly pricy when new. Do you consider all of that “affordable”, or does it merely seem so because so many of us have been able to acquire these items, used, over the years?
It just seems to me that, if you consider the price range that these speakers and other gear sold for when new, and shopped for current gear in that price range (taking into account inflation), there are many options available.
I think at least part of the problem is that people get used to the deflated value of these items on the used market, and then when they go to purchase “new” items, they are basically comparing the best of yesterday vs. today’s trash tech in order to get comparable prices. That is obviously not a fair comparison.
I would have to agree with you. All of the gear in my home theatre, appart from the main amp/processor, is 20 years old minimum. I have listened to the best of the best and I would wager that you could put 7 D66000's in the same room and there wouldn't be a hell of a lot of difference. If my vintage system cost around $20K and a Synthesis Everest cost.......I dunno......$250K, is that system 12.5 times better? Will there be a huge noticeable difference in fidelity? The answer to those 2 questions would have to be no. I will stick with vintage any day, all JBL of course. But thats just my opinion............................
My main surround system and main music system are about 50% 21st century, whole-house system is about 75% 21st century, and recording studio/dubbing rack/basement theater is about 10% 21st century.
Great gear is out there for decent pricing if you do some homework. The vintage stuff often feels more fun 'cause I rarely pay a dime for it, but I can't remember feeling like I'm not getting my dime's worth from my new gear. And I certainly couldn't have afforded my vintage gear when it was new, not a dream of a chance.
je
Well I just bought a new 2008 Shure cartridge for...my...oh well, 197? Thorens TT. But wait! The Sony XA7 CD player...no, close though, 1998 or 9!! I am pretty shure my Crown K1 bass amp was made in the 21st, have to look that one up.
Oh geeze, I just discovered that I have an XM receiver made this century, of course its plastic crap and made in China, but I'm no longer a 21stC system virgin.
Alert!! Alert!! OF Alert!
You knew this was coming with all the pining for how everything was better back in the day.
(from freerepublic.com)
Out.
and April 20, 1951 isnt old ??Originally Posted by Titanium Dome
speakers ??
black plastic is irrelevant ?? Made in China to last 2 years is irrelevant ? yup, you sure do have different priorities.
So plse, Mr. TD (who isnt an old fart) , you listed the catagories that are better in the 21stC, but no specifics. Plse do tell, what IS better, affordable and better quality now ? What is relevant to you ?
Not so much a this century that century deal, but have any of you noticed that it is virtually impossible to find a DVD player today that is as good as the ones made 5 years ago? Short of a mega dollar audiophile CD player, the current crop of CD players are also real crap... expect the same for Blu-ray players too... soon they will be $89 and made entirely out of plastic using the cheapest chip sets available... great. Dolby TrueHD done really badly.
Widget
I do agree with Seawolf's premise when it comes to most amps and linestages... the electronics in a 70's mid-fi receiver is certainly superior sounding to all but the best of today's receivers as long as you are playing a 2-channel source.
That said, I recently had the opportunity to help out a fellow with a terrible room and a 7.1 system using some large floor standing vinyl speakers that weighed a whopping 30lbs each. They even had JBL badges on them.
He had upgraded from a 7.1 Sunfire Pre-pro to a new Integra DTC 9.8 with Audyssey MultiEQ Pro. After we tuned the room using the Audyssey system his sound went from a confused mess to a coherent soundstage with excellent definition. The Sunfire sub went from a one note boom to powerful articulate bass. I wouldn't say that it was better than a high end 2 channel experience... it is an entirely different experience, but if you are into multichannel I would strongly encourage you to consider this latest development.
Here is a before and after plot of the sub. (After is in red.)
Widget
Good point Widget. The only pieces of new gear that I have are my DVD player, $100 I have tried the expensive ones but they gave me nothing more, my Yamaha 7.1 amp which is only really use for the processing and a Tascam CD burner. Amps, speakers and everything else is ancient. There are a lot of companies out there making very good gear but I cant see the point in spending $100K on a power amp, even if I could afford it!
What has changed the most over the last 20-30 years is in my opinion the signal sources. The sound quality of the CD players, the amps and so on. Not the speakers. That is why I use JBL's from the 1980's, and other electronics from this decade.
That said I also know that there are amps from the "dinosaur" age that are very good, but hard to get, and the price for those few products are almost as high as a 2008 model.
So I voted the way I did.
Please don't "kill me" for this.
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