HT Pre opinions

[Mr. Widget]

7.1 will set you free.

Some people need Viagra, others need 7.1... oh, sorry, wrong thread.


Widget

[Titanium Dome]

Some people need Viagra, others need 7.1... oh, sorry, wrong thread.


Widget

Bill Miller: "Why can't it be both?"

[MJC]

Try to snag a used Sony TAE 9000ES home theater control center. It is only a 5.1 device, (good enough for me) but the sonic quality is quite good. They are available for about $250 - $300 on EbaY. Sony still provides service on this model too.

No Sonys for me. I had a Sony 'top of the line unit' and had it in the shop 3 times in 8 years.

[MJC]

TiDome disagrees with me, but I think that 7.1 was created more to sell new gear than to solve any real sonic issues. I run 5.1 in both of my surround systems and they are both quite capable of total aural immersion.
Widget

Companies, like Lexicon, created 7.1 channels from stereo long before DD5.1 receivers and pre/pros became the norm. That thought process is something like, and I don't remember exactly, human hearing expects to hear sounds from behind.

[hjames]

Companies, like Lexicon, created 7.1 channels from stereo long before DD5.1 receivers and pre/pros became the norm. That thought process is something like, and I don't remember exactly, human hearing expects to hear sounds from behind.

Sure - but most folks run their 5.1 like I run mine - they way most well setup 5.1 systems are arranged - 2 behind me
2 in the front - center over (or under) the monitor, and the subwoofer (the dot one).

7.1 is the same pattern, the center, fronts, rears, and Sub, plus the addition
of 2 speakers to your sides ...

The rears have always been part of the equation for surround sound - even in the "bad" old days of Quad ...

[MJC]

When I only had 5 channels, the surrounds were on the sides, @ about 110*.

[pasadena]

I'm currently on the path to creating a 2CH setup as well as a HT setup and am trying to find ways/best possible solutions/compromises to integrate the both.

I love my music and I love watching movies but I'd also like to have my audio in HT to rival that of 2CH. That's where the problem lies, finding a common ground to have the best of both worlds.

The problem with most HT receivers, even the ones that cost upward to $10k, have pre-outs that totally suck. Manufacturer's seems to ignore the pre-out section but you can understand why they haven't done so as the everyday user would never bother with it, let alone understanding it. The average joe blo just wants to come home, turn on the system and watch a movie.

Those of us who demand more audio performance have to look at seperates but even then they suffer the same fate as HT receivers with pre-outs that are terrible and change the make-up of the sound.

I haven't had the pleasure of listening to a Lexicon 12B, as no one around here sells them but G.T reckons they're excellent and I have read a lot of reviews saying that audio performance is some of the best heard from a HT pre-pro. BUT, all this comes at a cost that most of us probably cannot afford or may never afford, unless you weight 10 years when the product is obselet and goping cheap, then you have yourself a bargain.

I figured that equipment that was outrageously expensive in it's time tends to become very affordable approaching the 10 year mark. That's my thought.

In the 2CH world, you can use a pre-amp of your choice and if you're fortunate to maybe have a HT bypass you can feed the signal from your HT source into your favourite power amps. One must realise that even with the best pre-amps and power amps money could buy, yourt HT signal is as good as it's source and this takes us back to the pre-out section.

It's hard to avoid being carried away with all the HT hoopla these days and when you have kids, they too want to be entertained as if they were in a real cinema. Who's under pressure to meet their demands. Come on, who wouldn't do anything for their kids.......to an extent. My wife and I love watching movies and why not have a great HT to match.

I suppose it comes down to what you want out of your system and how much you're willing to part with your money. Careful hunting and sensible decisions can yield and excellent system. Don't be pressured into thinking yourself into the notion that vasts amount of money buys the best system. Don't get sucked into the "Keep up with the Jones'" syndrome as this can be a very expensive exercise, who are you trying to impress!!!

It seems pointless to go down the the path of spending so much money on HT receivers and HT Pre-pro's when they are in fact the limiting factor. They are the weak link in the system so therefore the only way out is to compromise. Hardly the best solution that offers limited opportunities.

If you're after a HT receiver but have you own power amps you wish to use, I'd suggest you take your amps to hi-shops for an audition. The same goes for buying a pre-pro. Mind you, I don't know how many shops out there who will hookup HT receivers to your power amps and dick around with all the connections to get you up and running. This is a good test to see how much the shop will bend over backwards to go with your setup.

You can buy components from $500 - $1500 that will give you what you're looking for. A lot of people however do buy the lower end Denon Receivers not for their suckful music reproduction but for their very good HT processing capability. Buy yourself a good pre-amp and as a compromise you have a very good system.

Another example is that you get people who buy a Lexicon MC-1 for it's excellent HT processing capabilities mated with their 2ch pre-amp of their choice.

You also find that there's a stupendous amount of people that buy into Rotel's RSP range such as the 1068 and their top line 1098. Interestingly you find B&W owners with speakers costing squillions of dollars go out an buy the Rotel pre-pros. Either they've run out of money and can't buy the best pre-pro's or they find the Rotel's as a compromise that delivers the sound they want. The Rotel, especially the 1098 is excellent from all accounts and is a well priced item in the market, hence its vast attraction. Now that it's been superseeded, there could be a bargain to be had.

There are always means and ways of achieving a result.

Based on equipment listed in the first post, I would have thought the Outlaw came first then maybe the Rotel/Parasound. I have a Denon 2800 that, for the moment, fullfills my needs for HT. The pre-outs on this suck totally. I liken the sound as being feed through a sock, veiled and compressed.

If anyone's interested in an interesting piece of equipment that will integrate HT and 2ch very well, take a look at Son'y TA-P9000ES 5.1 analogue pre-amplifier. You'll be surprised at what this sucker can do for you.

Food for thought.

Cheers
Pasadena.

[MJC]

I'm going the route of having a separate stereo system in a different room from the HT. I just have to figure out what stereo amp will work best with my Charged-Coupled L212s. But for now I use a cheapy Denon stereo receiver.

[pasadena]

If I had the luxury of a second room I would do the same but I think even in my next house, HT and 2CH will reside in the same room so the setup will be a trickier proposition.

I've had my Denon 2800 receiver for some 7 or 8 years now and it still does the job for me. I've heard the latest Denon 4306, not sure what model in the U.S it relates to but it's supposed to be excellent for HT but not good musically, maybe fatiguing.

I think that if someone's going to go for something like the 4306, you're better off going to pickup a secondhand Rotel RSP-1098 pre-pro, which should keep one very happy.

Because the market is rapidly changing and currently in a transition phase with all the new technology coming through, you're better off waiting until second generation gear comes out (next year) or pickup something amongst the treasure trove of secondhand gear floating around the place.

Cheers
Pasadena.

[coherent_guy]

Here's some info on the Parasound 2500 AVC which I own. It is a well built unit, made in Finland if you can believe that! The surround processing is done by software on two Motorola processors. It does not have many surround modes at all, if you like all the manufactuer defined non-Dolby or DTS types don't get this unit. There was an update to the early models that adds bass management, ask the seller if it has this already installed. One oddity is while it has a five channel pass-through input for say 5.1 SACDs, the input needs an add-on volume control card sold by Parasound. That option then bypasses the digitization of most if not all inputs. The preamp stages are all discrete components, and is a 5.1 unit, not 7.1, etc. It does have some THX processing. There is an onboard tuner with presets, AM/FM. It has dual subwoofer outputs so you could call it a 5.2 unit perhaps? I think it sounds pretty good but I use it only in a HT system with SVA1600's, SVA Center, and subwoofer.

[pasadena]

I used to own a Yamaha receiver and there's so many DSP modes for DTS and Dolby that I never used them, in fact I didn't like any of them and just played it in theatre mode only and that was it.

With my Denon, you either have a choice of Direct, Dolby or DTS. I don't think there's a need for these 50 odd modes you can get with the latest Yamaha's.

I plug in a movie and the receiver picks the signal type, auto sets and off you go.

Simple is the best.

Is there anyone here that has a Yamaha or a receiver with a multitude of DSP modes and do you use any of them?

Cheers
Pasadena.

[hjames]

My JVC receiver has a number of DSP modes (Digital Signal Processing) - I can set the apparent room size from small space to cabaret to concert hall etc. I flipped through it once or twice but never use any of those.
Honestly, it kinda sounds like reverb - a nice effect when you are playing guitar, but not so fine for music listening.

But - the JVC does let me choose between analog inputs or optical for many sound sources - and offers Dolby Digital as well as DTS sound mode when I watch HDTV or DVDs - many DVDs offer both Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS 5.1 sound and I usually find the DTS sounds better. Even has a phono input!

But its a 4-5 year old unit - I don't think they have anything comparable today ...

I used to own a Yamaha receiver and there's so many DSP modes for DTS and Dolby that I never used them, in fact I didn't like any of them and just played it in theatre mode only and that was it.

With my Denon, you either have a choice of Direct, Dolby or DTS. I don't think there's a need for these 50 odd modes you can get with the latest Yamaha's.

I plug in a movie and the receiver picks the signal type, auto sets and off you go.

Simple is the best.

Is there anyone here that has a Yamaha or a receiver with a multitude of DSP modes and do you use any of them?

Cheers
Pasadena.

[MJC]

Here's some info on the Parasound 2500 AVC which I own. It is a well built unit, made in Finland if you can believe that! .

Parasound is some pretty good gear. I've got the Parasound 2205A THX amp. I use a H/K AVR 635 receiver for the pre/pro, I really like the logic 7 surround sound. Anytime I'm watching a movie on sat or cable, I use the L7 instead of DD.
I think I'm going to try a H/K Citation pre-amp for my stereo L212 setup. There is a number of them on ebay right now. And at first I'll connect my old Yamaha intergrated amp, which only good as a power amp now. If I still don't think the soundstage is right I'll get a different amp, maybe a Citation.

[Mr. Widget]

Parasound is some pretty good gear.

I agree... the several pieces of Parasound gear I have heard have all sounded quite good.


Widget

[Titanium Dome]

The Citation 7.0 is renowned for its stereo analog bypass. It has Dolby ProLogic 70MM, but none of the more recent modes. The Citation 5.0 is newer with the great stereo analog bypass, plus DD 5.1 and DTS 5.1 (if installed as an option), plus other modes.

I still have a 5.0 in my pre/pro arsenal, though it's #3 behind the FAP T1 and FAP T1+.

The Citations are a bitch to set up, but with some commitment they are still first class units.