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Thread: JBL 4401s

  1. #1
    Senior Member alexkerhead's Avatar
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    JBL 4401s

    I got them in yesterday and have given them a good listen on 10 different receivers.
    Receivers/amps used:
    SX-1250
    SX-680
    Marantz 2265B
    Marantz 2270
    Marantz 1530
    Marantz 2220B
    Marantz 2216B
    Realistic ST-500 integrated
    Sherwood 7100A
    Magnavox 6V6 tube amplifier

    I must say, for their size, they are amazing. Best sounding 6.5" midbass I have heard and the tweeters are incredibly detailed compared to what I am used to with the LE25s in my L100s.

    They sounded best on the Marantz 2265B, Pioneer SX-680, and the Pioneer sx-1250.

    Excellent speakers all around. I have added them to the top of my L100 stack to compensate for the L100's rolled off highs.
    Definetely whomped my L100s in HF detailing, heard some stuff I cannot hear on my L100s.

    Just an opinion from an audio newb here.

  2. #2
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    AHHHH, the light goes ON!

    Consider this:

    http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ad.php?t=11756

    Can you mod 035tiAs (cheap on eBay, or maybe someone here has a pair for you to try,) to fit your DIY in-line L100 driver alignment? They play to some outrageously high frequency (27 kHz?) as I recall.

    That's a far better approach than trying to boost the paper tweeters with EQ.

    Also, as we've discussed before, getting down to just ONE tweeter and mid playing per side will be a substantial improvement.

    Maybe try this with your 4401s:

    Run a pair of your L100 woofers ONLY as "subs" with them. Make sure you get the phase correct.

    Then, having stated elsewhere here that you don't like boomy bass, close the ports on the L100s with plumbers' test plugs (from the hardware store), and see if you don't like this combination even better with the boomy bass gone.

    If so, add a sub crossover on the system to shut the woofers down above ~100 Hz.

    THEN, you'll have a stack that actually works. (See below)

    Seems like a waste of L100s using them just as subs? Find a pair of L88 cabs like these to refurbish. Same box, basically, with cool Eames moderne grilles to match your '50s phones.

    [Pull the port plugs any time you want the boomy bass back.... ]
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  3. #3
    Senior Member soundboy's Avatar
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    If the 4401's sound good...

    Get some 4406's. I have had both. The 4406's are more extended top and bottom, and way more transparent. The 4406's I still have also have mylar caps bypassed with polyprope from the factory...the 4401's I had were equipped with electrolytics everywhere, even though they were older production....regardless, the 4406's just sound quite a bit smoother and detailed....and they are still cheap....I got a mint pair for $180.00 including shipping. I have seen them go for substantially less, but they aren't all that common on ebay anymore...I would keep both, though, if you can...the 4401's do have a noticeably punchier bass, because of the stiff paper/aquaplas cone. They also both look pretty cool in their own ways...one of the reasons I was always a sucker for JBL stuff....JBL got you all excited reading the color brochures for everything they made....they have to show you pics of the raw cast machined drivers, response graph's, etc....and then you have to have it....Rock on!

  4. #4
    Senior Member alexkerhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch
    AHHHH, the light goes ON!

    Consider this:

    http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ad.php?t=11756

    Can you mod 035tiAs (cheap on eBay, or maybe someone here has a pair for you to try,) to fit your DIY in-line L100 driver alignment? They play to some outrageously high frequency (27 kHz?) as I recall.

    That's a far better approach than trying to boost the paper tweeters with EQ.

    Also, as we've discussed before, getting down to just ONE tweeter and mid playing per side will be a substantial improvement.

    Maybe try this with your 4401s:

    Run a pair of your L100 woofers ONLY as "subs" with them. Make sure you get the phase correct.

    Then, having stated elsewhere here that you don't like boomy bass, close the ports on the L100s with plumbers' test plugs (from the hardware store), and see if you don't like this combination even better with the boomy bass gone.

    If so, add a sub crossover on the system to shut the woofers down above ~100 Hz.

    THEN, you'll have a stack that actually works. (See below)

    A waste of L100s using them just as subs? Find a pair of L88 cabs like these to refurbish. Same box, basically, with cool Eames moderne grilles to match your '50s phones.

    [Pull the port plugs any time you want the boomy bass back.... ]
    Thanks zilch, I did see your thread on modifying L100s. Awesome info.

    I will keep an eye out for some lancers, but they don't seem to come up on fleabay that often.

    Seems the light did come on, I was missing a lot of sound in the higher frequencies, especially the 11KHz+.
    But my modded(bastardized) L100s will make great experiment fodder!
    And if I can follow your steps correctly, it should turn out nicely.
    I will attempt to copy what you have done in the image you posted!

    Soundboy, I will keep an eye out for some 4406s, but likelyhood of finding them is low if they aren't often put on fleabay.

    Alabama sucks for trying to find good speakers, most idiots down here buy sansui kabuki because they are flashy(Alabamians aren't to bright most of the time)(my mother comes from minnesota, so I got lucky not to be entrenched with redneck DNA)
    So yeah, all you see for sale down here is kabuki and realistic speakers.
    The occasional audiophile(rare) might have some nice stuff, but not many audiophiles in Alabama either.
    I got my original L100s from my older brother, who got them from my dad, and he used them with a pair of L65s back in the 70s audio haydays.

    Enough

  5. #5
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexkerhead
    I will keep an eye out for some lancers, but they don't seem to come up on fleabay that often.
    Two pair of L88 Nova grilles sold on eBay in the last couple of months; there musta been cabs what went with them. (I snagged one of the grille pairs, actually.)

    They seem to get parted out more often than sold complete. There's a set of crossovers listed right now, for example. The chop shops don't want to mess with selling the cabinets on eBay, but for every L88 crossover or tweeter listed, there's a cabinet and grille ripe for refurbishing. Watch for the parts to be listed and contact the sellers regarding the cabinets. My mint-condition grilles came from Georgia, as I recall.

    Here's a link to a recent post re: Eames speakers. Click the links there to see the similar JBL L88 Novas:

    http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...48&postcount=7

    They preceded L100 by several years, and, though merely a two-way, I find them to be a better-sounding (not to mention better LOOKING) speaker. 035tiAs in THEM would be a worthy upgrade as well.

    XO was 2 kHz, 12dB/octave:

    http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Te...0Nova%20ts.pdf

    4408 crossed 035tiA at 2.5 kHz. I don't know how low it can be used successfully; someone here with the data sheet might look it up and post the minimum recommended XO frequency and slope.

    Just to be clear, I'm recommending you try them merely as subs with your 4401s, but they're also neato-looking two-ways, if that doesn't work for you.

    [I've already posted how to make them "killer" in DIY, and it ain't by adding LE5-2.... ]

  6. #6
    RIP 2021 SEAWOLF97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexkerhead
    the tweeters are incredibly detailed compared to what I am used to with the LE25s in my L100s.Definitely whomped my L100s in HF detailing, heard some stuff I cannot hear on my L100s.
    Alex..I think you are starting to catch on to the current role of L100's . They get your foot into "the JBL door". After a while , you outgrow them and find other models that have more to offer.

    Amazing how many members have the same story
    " started out with L100s, eventually upgraded, passed L100s to son who loves them, then HE outgrows them, then the cycle repeats....."
    Some kind of happiness is measured out in miles

  7. #7
    Senior Member alexkerhead's Avatar
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    I understand now seawolf97, indeed they did get me in the door.

    I plugged the L100 ports on one set, tunred off the other set and disconnected the mids and tweeter in the set of L100s with the plugged ports.
    Zilch was right, this is a better configuration!
    Sound similar to a set of L-112s if my memory serves me well. Bass leaves a bit to be desired, but I might just build some large 3cu.ft cabs for the woofers by themselves.

    Thanks zilch!

  8. #8
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexkerhead
    Bass leaves a bit to be desired, but I might just build some large 3cu.ft cabs for the woofers by themselves.

    Thanks zilch!
    No problem, Alex.

    Johnaec's cutting me a pair of new baffles for my C36 Viscounts (3 cuft.) to try the same thing.

    123A(-x)/2213H is a closed-box driver with deliciously low free-air resonance. I'm anxious to hear what they can REALLY sound like!

  9. #9
    Senior Member alexkerhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch
    No problem, Alex.

    Johnaec's cutting me a pair of new baffles for my C36 Viscounts (3 cuft.) to try the same thing.

    123A(-x)/2213H is a closed-box driver with deliciously low free-air resonance. I'm anxious to hear what they can REALLY sound like!
    Interesting.
    Looks like we shall both find out how they sound!
    Mine won't look very good, I am a poor wood worker!
    But I can try and make them not look like crap.
    My stupid ass made a set of cabs once from pine, that was the dumbest thing ever, they didn't even sit flat.
    I am thinking old school 50s style cabinets, ya know square front, not too deep.
    I may even try some glass on top with a viewing area to see the woofer, but that will be hard to keep from having air leaks...squeak squeak.

    I also have 2327 horns, I just need to find some compression drivers for them.

  10. #10
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexkerhead
    Mine won't look very good, I am a poor wood worker!
    But I can try and make them not look like crap.
    The single most important thing about closed boxes is that they really be well sealed. Carefully caulk all of the joints from the inside once completed, and use closed-cell foam weatherstrip (1/2" x 1/8" from Ace hardware, for example) as a gasket behind the woofer flange....

    Edit: Here's my "vintage" cabs I'm using for this:

    http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...539#post126539

    That's an interesting thread on this subject, if you haven't read it before. Design graphs are in Post #25....

    http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...647#post126647

  11. #11
    Senior Member alexkerhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch
    The single most important thing about closed boxes is that they really be well sealed. Carefully caulk all of the joints from the inside once completed, and use closed-cell foam weatherstrip (1/2" x 1/8" from Ace hardware, for example) as a gasket behind the woofer flange....
    Thanks for the suggestions!
    I will try and get some birch for this project.
    And a fuse for my table saw.

  12. #12
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    Yup, 3/4" birch ply with bracing should be good enough for this small of boxes.

    [They be "Experimental".... ]

    If they work, the finishing touch is here:

    http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ead.php?t=3216

  13. #13
    Senior Member alexkerhead's Avatar
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    I think since I am going to spend all that money on plywood, maybe I need to build something with some flexibility.

    I was thinking 28"tall, 28"wide, and 14"deep internally.
    Externally, it should be 29.5"tall, 28"wide, and 15.5"deep.
    With overhanging top and bottom peices.


    Roughly 6.35 Cubic Feet

    What do you think zilch?
    here is a drawing of the design I did in paint.
    Imagine appropriate cross bracing as well to reduce resonance.

    What compression driver for the 2327s would you recommend?

    Thanks again for all the help!
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  14. #14
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
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    You need to go back and read this thread again:

    http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...371#post126371

    The box you propose is way too large. Even at 5.0 cuft., you're out of cone excursion at 35 Hz.

    I chose 3 cuft. because air cushion inside the box keeps 123A-x "safe" all the way down at 50W rated power.

    Did you feel what happened to the cone when you plugged the L100 port? It goes from floppy to stiff instantly. Quite amazing what a closed box will do to damp the cone movement.

    Exterior dimensions of my 3.0 cuft. boxes are 19-3/8"W x 23-3/4" H x 15-7/8" D. The front baffle is recessed 1-1/2".

    2327 is a throat adapter, not a horn. If you want to do compression driver/horn, I'll have some inexpensive recommendations for you in that area.

    That's a WHOLE 'nother subject....

  15. #15
    Senior Member alexkerhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch
    You need to go back and read this thread again:

    http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...371#post126371

    The box you propose is way too large. Even at 5.0 cuft., you're out of cone excursion at 35 Hz.

    I chose 3 cuft. because air cushion inside the box keeps 123A-x "safe" all the way down at 50W rated power.

    Did you feel what happened to the cone when you plugged the L100 port? It goes from floppy to stiff instantly. Quite amazing what a closed box will do to damp the cone movement.

    Exterior dimensions of my 3.0 cuft. boxes are 19-3/8"W x 23-3/4" H x 15-7/8" D. The front baffle is recessed 1-1/2".

    Link me to some info on your horn. I'm drawing a blank on it....
    Ah, I didn't realize that.
    I guess 3cu. will be fine, I wanted a larger cab(to emulate old school speakers), but I dont want to sacrafice SQ.
    I like your dimensions however.

    Here is an image of the small horns.
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