JBL 4401s

[alexkerhead]

I got them in yesterday and have given them a good listen on 10 different receivers.
Receivers/amps used:
SX-1250
SX-680
Marantz 2265B
Marantz 2270
Marantz 1530
Marantz 2220B
Marantz 2216B
Realistic ST-500 integrated
Sherwood 7100A
Magnavox 6V6 tube amplifier

I must say, for their size, they are amazing. Best sounding 6.5" midbass I have heard and the tweeters are incredibly detailed compared to what I am used to with the LE25s in my L100s.

They sounded best on the Marantz 2265B, Pioneer SX-680, and the Pioneer sx-1250.

Excellent speakers all around. I have added them to the top of my L100 stack to compensate for the L100's rolled off highs.
Definetely whomped my L100s in HF detailing, heard some stuff I cannot hear on my L100s.

Just an opinion from an audio newb here.

[Zilch]

AHHHH, the light goes ON!

Consider this:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ad.php?t=11756

Can you mod 035tiAs (cheap on eBay, or maybe someone here has a pair for you to try,) to fit your DIY in-line L100 driver alignment? They play to some outrageously high frequency (27 kHz?) as I recall.

That's a far better approach than trying to boost the paper tweeters with EQ.

Also, as we've discussed before, getting down to just ONE tweeter and mid playing per side will be a substantial improvement.

Maybe try this with your 4401s:

Run a pair of your L100 woofers ONLY as "subs" with them. Make sure you get the phase correct.

Then, having stated elsewhere here that you don't like boomy bass, close the ports on the L100s with plumbers' test plugs (from the hardware store), and see if you don't like this combination even better with the boomy bass gone.

If so, add a sub crossover on the system to shut the woofers down above ~100 Hz.

THEN, you'll have a stack that actually works. (See below)

Seems like a waste of L100s using them just as subs? Find a pair of L88 cabs like these to refurbish. Same box, basically, with cool Eames moderne grilles to match your '50s phones.

[Pull the port plugs any time you want the boomy bass back.... ]

[soundboy]

Get some 4406's. I have had both. The 4406's are more extended top and bottom, and way more transparent. The 4406's I still have also have mylar caps bypassed with polyprope from the factory...the 4401's I had were equipped with electrolytics everywhere, even though they were older production....regardless, the 4406's just sound quite a bit smoother and detailed....and they are still cheap....I got a mint pair for $180.00 including shipping. I have seen them go for substantially less, but they aren't all that common on ebay anymore...I would keep both, though, if you can...the 4401's do have a noticeably punchier bass, because of the stiff paper/aquaplas cone. They also both look pretty cool in their own ways...one of the reasons I was always a sucker for JBL stuff....JBL got you all excited reading the color brochures for everything they made....they have to show you pics of the raw cast machined drivers, response graph's, etc....and then you have to have it....Rock on!

[alexkerhead]

AHHHH, the light goes ON!

Consider this:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ad.php?t=11756

Can you mod 035tiAs (cheap on eBay, or maybe someone here has a pair for you to try,) to fit your DIY in-line L100 driver alignment? They play to some outrageously high frequency (27 kHz?) as I recall.

That's a far better approach than trying to boost the paper tweeters with EQ.

Also, as we've discussed before, getting down to just ONE tweeter and mid playing per side will be a substantial improvement.

Maybe try this with your 4401s:

Run a pair of your L100 woofers ONLY as "subs" with them. Make sure you get the phase correct.

Then, having stated elsewhere here that you don't like boomy bass, close the ports on the L100s with plumbers' test plugs (from the hardware store), and see if you don't like this combination even better with the boomy bass gone.

If so, add a sub crossover on the system to shut the woofers down above ~100 Hz.

THEN, you'll have a stack that actually works. (See below)

A waste of L100s using them just as subs? Find a pair of L88 cabs like these to refurbish. Same box, basically, with cool Eames moderne grilles to match your '50s phones.

[Pull the port plugs any time you want the boomy bass back.... ]

Thanks zilch, I did see your thread on modifying L100s. Awesome info.

I will keep an eye out for some lancers, but they don't seem to come up on fleabay that often.

Seems the light did come on, I was missing a lot of sound in the higher frequencies, especially the 11KHz+.
But my modded(bastardized) L100s will make great experiment fodder!
And if I can follow your steps correctly, it should turn out nicely.
I will attempt to copy what you have done in the image you posted!

Soundboy, I will keep an eye out for some 4406s, but likelyhood of finding them is low if they aren't often put on fleabay.

Alabama sucks for trying to find good speakers, most idiots down here buy sansui kabuki because they are flashy(Alabamians aren't to bright most of the time)(my mother comes from minnesota, so I got lucky not to be entrenched with redneck DNA)
So yeah, all you see for sale down here is kabuki and realistic speakers.
The occasional audiophile(rare) might have some nice stuff, but not many audiophiles in Alabama either.
I got my original L100s from my older brother, who got them from my dad, and he used them with a pair of L65s back in the 70s audio haydays.

Enough

[Zilch]

I will keep an eye out for some lancers, but they don't seem to come up on fleabay that often.

Two pair of L88 Nova grilles sold on eBay in the last couple of months; there musta been cabs what went with them. (I snagged one of the grille pairs, actually.)

They seem to get parted out more often than sold complete. There's a set of crossovers listed right now, for example. The chop shops don't want to mess with selling the cabinets on eBay, but for every L88 crossover or tweeter listed, there's a cabinet and grille ripe for refurbishing. Watch for the parts to be listed and contact the sellers regarding the cabinets. My mint-condition grilles came from Georgia, as I recall.

Here's a link to a recent post re: Eames speakers. Click the links there to see the similar JBL L88 Novas:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...48&postcount=7

They preceded L100 by several years, and, though merely a two-way, I find them to be a better-sounding (not to mention better LOOKING) speaker. 035tiAs in THEM would be a worthy upgrade as well.

XO was 2 kHz, 12dB/octave:

http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Te...0Nova%20ts.pdf

4408 crossed 035tiA at 2.5 kHz. I don't know how low it can be used successfully; someone here with the data sheet might look it up and post the minimum recommended XO frequency and slope.

Just to be clear, I'm recommending you try them merely as subs with your 4401s, but they're also neato-looking two-ways, if that doesn't work for you.

[I've already posted how to make them "killer" in DIY, and it ain't by adding LE5-2.... ]

[SEAWOLF97]

the tweeters are incredibly detailed compared to what I am used to with the LE25s in my L100s.Definitely whomped my L100s in HF detailing, heard some stuff I cannot hear on my L100s.

Alex..I think you are starting to catch on to the current role of L100's . They get your foot into "the JBL door". After a while , you outgrow them and find other models that have more to offer.

Amazing how many members have the same story
" started out with L100s, eventually upgraded, passed L100s to son who loves them, then HE outgrows them, then the cycle repeats....."

[alexkerhead]

I understand now seawolf97, indeed they did get me in the door.

I plugged the L100 ports on one set, tunred off the other set and disconnected the mids and tweeter in the set of L100s with the plugged ports.
Zilch was right, this is a better configuration!
Sound similar to a set of L-112s if my memory serves me well. Bass leaves a bit to be desired, but I might just build some large 3cu.ft cabs for the woofers by themselves.

Thanks zilch!

[Zilch]

Bass leaves a bit to be desired, but I might just build some large 3cu.ft cabs for the woofers by themselves.

Thanks zilch!

No problem, Alex.

Johnaec's cutting me a pair of new baffles for my C36 Viscounts (3 cuft.) to try the same thing.

123A(-x)/2213H is a closed-box driver with deliciously low free-air resonance. I'm anxious to hear what they can REALLY sound like!

[alexkerhead]

No problem, Alex.

Johnaec's cutting me a pair of new baffles for my C36 Viscounts (3 cuft.) to try the same thing.

123A(-x)/2213H is a closed-box driver with deliciously low free-air resonance. I'm anxious to hear what they can REALLY sound like!

Interesting.
Looks like we shall both find out how they sound!
Mine won't look very good, I am a poor wood worker!
But I can try and make them not look like crap.
My stupid ass made a set of cabs once from pine, that was the dumbest thing ever, they didn't even sit flat.
I am thinking old school 50s style cabinets, ya know square front, not too deep.
I may even try some glass on top with a viewing area to see the woofer, but that will be hard to keep from having air leaks...squeak squeak.

I also have 2327 horns, I just need to find some compression drivers for them.

[Zilch]

Mine won't look very good, I am a poor wood worker!
But I can try and make them not look like crap.

The single most important thing about closed boxes is that they really be well sealed. Carefully caulk all of the joints from the inside once completed, and use closed-cell foam weatherstrip (1/2" x 1/8" from Ace hardware, for example) as a gasket behind the woofer flange....

Edit: Here's my "vintage" cabs I'm using for this:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...539#post126539

That's an interesting thread on this subject, if you haven't read it before. Design graphs are in Post #25....

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...647#post126647

[Mr. Widget]

I got them in yesterday and have given them a good listen on 10 different receivers....

Back to the original subject of this thread... was there a significant difference between the various Pioneer, Marantz etc. receivers? I have never bothered to compare more than one or two, but I always felt that most of the '70s era Japanese receivers sounded pretty much the same. At this point in history, some or most of the differences you heard could be due to bias drift and other time related issues.

A decent amp and preamp will usually sound significantly better... the more revealing the speakers, the greater the improvement.

Definetely whomped my L100s in HF detailing, heard some stuff I cannot hear on my L100s.

That tweeter in the L100 isn't particularly stellar, so that is no surprise.



Widget

[alexkerhead]

Back to the original subject of this thread... was there a significant difference between the various Pioneer, Marantz etc. receivers? I have never bothered to compare more than one or two, but I always felt that most of the '70s era Japanese receivers sounded pretty much the same. At this point in history, some or most of the differences you heard could be due to bias drift and other time related issues.

A decent amp and preamp will usually sound significantly better... the more revealing the speakers, the greater the improvement.
That tweeter in the L100 isn't particularly stellar, so that is no surprise.



Widget

I adjusted the DC offset and bias for all the units and the over 30wpc receivers I recapped.
Pioneers have great high frequency articulation.
Marantz is very warm, makes you feel comfy when you listen.
Sherwood sounds almost like a tube amp.

Each receiver's pre amp and amplification sections reproduce the sound quite differently.

If you get a chance, try it out, old receivers have a very old-timey sound new stuff cannot offer, which makes the older speakers I use sound more like they were intended.

The speakers Zilch is helping me with will most likely be powered by a 40wpc tube amp I am working on.