The seeming demise of JBL OEM parts... and the subsequent devaluation of a brand?

[Thom]

I like JBL products.

This is a JBL orientated forum and I see no need to question why JBL/Harmon does what they do.

I just try and benefit from it!

Ron

This seems a bit simple to me. I'm not saying that it's not OK for you, but it's unrealistic to expect it of others.
Whether it's scale model trains or motor cycles, few people have that complete blind follower mode. So to come down on anyone who dares a critical thought or a comparison or such is out of line. I'll not ridicule you for blind worship. Don't attack me if my admiration is a bit more critical.
You'll find people on here trying to make what they think is better, not than JBL could do, but than JBL was going to do for them. And that would not be possible without questioning.
As a large corporation, most likely their most successful venture is not the one that sounds the best. So questioning why they do certain things can be a very helpful tool.

MOST DIE HARD HARLEY FANS DON'T KICK BACK AND REMEMBER FONDLY THE AMF DAYS.

Actually for all I know maybe they do now, but they sure didn't used to. The point is either across or it isn't.

[Thom]

Looks like I won't be buying a 2269 very soon. Every thing except the price.

[Thom]

Some folks get it....


Others never will.....

I really don't understand the response but I never did so I guess that's just how it is. I hope your response appearing angry is just my paranoia.

On occasion I have seen original D130 cones for sale. Would a person be stuck using aftermarket coils and spyders to install these or can these also be found now and again?

[hjames]

I just don't get what you are talking about? What exactly is your point?

I don't think many here are blind JBL followers, many have specific tastes and like various things from the lines - some newer, some older.

But it a few days you were talkin' like JBL ought to give us all special deals 'cause we were the "special core" of their fandom, and you implied that anyone that didn't get that was pretty thick.
Now, I can't even imagine what you are trying to say - help us out here, really ...

This seems a bit simple to me. I'm not saying that it's not OK for you, but it's unrealistic to expect it of others.
Whether it's scale model trains or motor cycles, few people have that complete blind follower mode. So to come down on anyone who dares a critical thought or a comparison or such is out of line. I'll not ridicule you for blind worship. Don't attack me if my admiration is a bit more critical.
You'll find people on here trying to make what they think is better, not than JBL could do, but than JBL was going to do for them. And that would not be possible without questioning.
As a large corporation, most likely their most successful venture is not the one that sounds the best. So questioning why they do certain things can be a very helpful tool.

[Thom]

Heather I'm sure you'r right and I feel much better seeing it in writing I don't see the post now but you can see the quote in my post a couple posts back.That is all I was refering to. I guess my head spins whenever I hear "don't question". I'm sure at this point ir's been beet to death. I know I've never heard you say any such thing. Thanks much for your post.

Originally Posted by spkrman57 View Post
I like JBL products.

This is a JBL orientated forum and I see no need to question why JBL/Harmon does what they do.

I just try and benefit from it!

Ron

[Thom]

Why do I have to have to have an agenda

I was trying to find out about and perhaps find a mate for my what I thought were much older than they are ampex 15 inch woofers that were obviously JBL and yet unlike any other I'd ever seen.

Why wouldn't I post here?

How did we get here from the previous posts. One should probably always question everything.
Not everything in the same way.

When I see something I know is incorrect, I try to correct.

when I see something that I believe is incorrect but I don't know for sure, I try to find out.

In the case of loudspeakers, I recently realised that I have almost understood how they work for a long time and I feel it's time to fill in the blanks. At the same time I don't believe in magic. There is no crystal on top of my microwave oven to protect me from the microwaves.

If this is a private forum fine if one spends enough time reading they could come to believe that it is a private forum and it is yours. I spent some time looking for such information and found none. I even asked you about yourself privately but you chose not to answer so it seams it would be a bit rude to go digging for information that you apparently don't want me to have. I'm sure you're not going to wast a lot of time reading about me so .

[edgewound]

Heather I'm sure you'r right and I feel much better seeing it in writing I don't see the post now but you can see the quote in my post a couple posts back.That is all I was refering to. I guess my head spins whenever I hear "don't question". I'm sure at this point ir's been beet to death. I know I've never heard you say any such thing. Thanks much for your post.

Hey Thom...

Buddy...give us all a break.

If you were to bother to go back through the vast archives of this forum, you would sooner or later discover that we have all had some pretty sizeable frustrations with how Harman has run things as far as OEM parts and such.

I've been a JBL Servicer for 18+ years and have surely had my share of heartache with the parts supply.

Fortunatley a few upper executives had the foresight to see that Harman was on the road to their own demise through a lack of quality control....big time problem back in the 1990's.

Since that time, they have rolled up their sleeves and I'd say have done a remarkable job in improving product quality in each of their price points.

The quality of OEM parts has improved exponentially, not to mention the keeping levels of inventory at a more reasonable, attainable levels.

For instance...when I order a part from the Pro Division that is on backorder, they will put a delivery date sometimes two months out. In reality it might show up next week. Is that perfect? No...but in todays' Just-In-Time manufacturing climate it's a major improvement over stating two months out that turns into six months out.

Harman has done a respectable job keeping lots of plates spinning.
Parts revenue is probably somewhere in the neighbor hood of $10-15 million annually....alot of that which goes to keeping old products alive and kicking....pretty generous of a Fortune 500 multinational.

You should really start researching the forum for some of this info...it's really old news, and it gets very frustrating trying to put a coherent spin on some of your posts.

I have a hand cramp now and need to take a break.


Happy New Year

[Thom]

I don't get it. I'm not screaming about much if anything. I have no idea what is so special about when I joined but I guess it's a secret because after making something of it you didn't enlighten me. You haven't seen passive aggressive. The company has an interest in its product performing properly unless they have completely moved on. Such as if they were making actuators today instead of loudspeakers than what product with their name on it sounds like would be irrelevant. I don't get this "you haven't suffered what I've suffered" thing I never really understood Harmon, didn't they hang onto germanium about as long as Sherwood or something? Anytime someone says "I'm not going to question it" that gets my atten. I remember a time when sometimes JBL would repair items and then not acknowledge that a repair had been done because they weren't acknowledging a defect so no charge. I get the feeling that some here think that because they may know something I don't I couldn't have any facts they are unaware of. I wouldn't be foolish enough to make that assumption of anyone but you may if you wish. I try to maintain composed enough not to say " I want my F--- horn"on a public forum so make of things what you will. You actually seam somewhat interesting but it's obvious that I'll never know you so that is meaningless. Would you only have me post when I agree with something? Is there a little cheerleaders outfit? sounds boring. I went back through this thread and there is some serious bitching. I think none of them said the horn thing didnt put you in best light and that is what this is all about. You are obviously very valuable to know so I'm going to hate myself in the morning but being that much better than everybody else must be a terrible burden.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Only tonight I had an opportunity to read this read. The first four pages were quite interesting and mirror my experiences. I must say have never really had a problem with parts but I suppose if you are in the recone industry it would be more obvious I expect.

At our age as users I expect you will be dead or deaf before the need arises for re-coning a fresh kit.

I was really into JBL from the late 70's to the mid eighties. The brand then faded a bit and has made a come back in the late 90's. About that time I regained interest in JBL but it was the classic prefessional series stuff.

The simple reason was I aligned to and preferred the core characteristics of the classic JBL sound at its best compared to another Pro brand monitor (RCF) I was using at the time.

The flip side is a lot vintage JBL users are down selling the brand by using the vintage stuff with less than AAA+ electronics. Be it old door stoppers or the new home threatre wonder boxes they are bad news. I know as I have been there and its just plain sad.

The Japanese users really know how to get the best out of their vintage systems as noted by Steve K's recent posts. On that basis I have thrown out my proccessor /pre and bought Lavry DA10 convertor (CD)and a Pass X2.5 preamp. Sorry but I don't consider home theatre high quality audio (Dolby digital / DTS 5.1). Its entertainment value but that's all.

There simply is no substitute for quality.

This is why a hate reading about re-edging and after maket diaphragms. Pity we still see Emperors without the clothes waxing procedures about this sort of thing and their enormously exacting 1/3 band graphics. The two just don't go hand in hand. Go figure.

If you really want the real deal its probably fair to say that a kit that has been inspected / installed by Giskard is as good as its ever going to be. The maticulous approach and attention to detail is superb and that is what makes JBL the brand as we know it.

Speaking of parts, a picture says a 100 words.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ad.php?t=13788

Ian

[MJC]

Sorry but I don't consider home theatre high quality audio (Dolby digital / DTS 5.1). Its entertainment value but that's all.

It is if you're running DVD-A and SACD thru the same system! DTS 96/24 is sweet as well as true lossless dvd-A, as is SACD.

[Titanium Dome]

(snip)

The flip side is a lot vintage JBL users are down selling the brand by using the vintage stuff with less than AAA+ electronics. Be it old door stoppers or the new home threatre wonder boxes they are bad news. I know as I have been there and its just plain sad.

The Japanese users really know how to get the best out of their vintage systems as noted by Steve K's recent posts. On that basis I have thrown out my proccessor /pre and bought Lavry DA10 convertor (CD)and a Pass X2.5 preamp. Sorry but I don't consider home theatre high quality audio (Dolby digital / DTS 5.1). Its entertainment value but that's all.

There simply is no substitute for quality.

This is why a hate reading about re-edging and after maket diaphragms. Pity we still see Emperors without the clothes waxing procedures about this sort of thing and their enormously exacting 1/3 band graphics. The two just don't go hand in hand. Go figure.

(snip)

Ian

Hey Ian, cheers on the New Year and rippingly written.

A bold stroke for the new year... and I enjoy the diversity of candid opinion , but no need to apologize for being wrong about home theatre and its attendant equipment IF you're also including multichannel audio in that group. Now you were quite careful (I think) to say "home theatre" and did not specifically write "multichannel audio" so perhaps you're making a distinction or perhaps not.

In actuality, I won't defend home theatre, because I essentially agree with your critique; however, I'm pretty serious about multichannel audio. While I enjoy a good mono or stereo system and even some vintage audio equipment, it's all pretty much a BWOT as far as I'm concerned.

For those who relish the stereophonic experience, heaven is at hand with new two-channel technology, but to me it's so much old theory in a new wrapper and not really advancing the art. Multichannel audio does advance the art IMO, and done well offers an unsurpassed home musical experience.

A lot of folks will argue about what "done well" means, but that's relative to the individual, just as the preference for mono, stereo, or multichannel, tubes or SS, horns or DR, etc., will be driven by personal taste.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Yes I was refering to Home Theatre Video Music DVD's in Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS played via a home theatre amp with all those bells and buttons not pure SACD or DVD A or pure DTS music disks.

My decoder can playback 24/96 and I look forward to that when the time comes.


Ian

[Titanium Dome]

I took out the DVD-A of Beatles LOVE, that was part of the package I bought at Target for $15.88 and decided to play it, since I'd spun the stereo version many times. Ian's comments made me inquisitive about the multichannel experience with something that I had known on vinyl 45s and LPs in the 60s, known again on CD reissues in the 80s and 90s, heard remastered finally on Beatles 1 in stereo, and then remixed and remastered on Beatles LOVE in stereo.

For my money, the DVD-A experience is the best expression, and it's due to the convergence of all the advances made in music reproduction since 1963, including the fact that the JBL Performance Series is the best multichannel speaker system to take the experience into the average home and make these new, multichannel recordings absolutely wonderful, intimate, real, and breathtaking.

We're getting a bit off thread, so check here:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...096#post142096

Back OT, though, as long as JBL is producing and supporting current systems like the Performance Series, Project Array Series, and others, I see things getting better for the brand, not worse. Times are changing, JBL and Harman seem to be revitalizing the brand, and we should think about how amazing that is.

Sure, I love the old stuff, have enough of it to know how it sounds and also how outdated some of it is, but the reality is there's nothing from the past that I want more than the present products and drivers, including a strong desire for all the new TOTL stuff I cannot yet afford.

[colorbars]

I am a little late posting this since it is over a year old but I will chime in anyway. i have to agree that service was a big part of the draw for JBL, let alone their quality levels.

In 1998 I finally got my pair of 4311B's. Not long after I started buying a full set drivers to replace them if they die. I just need a pair of woofers for them. I have the mids and highs tucked away in case I may need them. I rarely pop a speaker or driver so I am probably set to go beyond my lifetime. And those in my family will hopefully inherit something to enjoy or sell at a modest gain.

I just need to do this with the Summits I have now.

[pocketchange]

does not seem to be in the cards for many of the players from the grand "dark age of audio". Too bad.

I hope some (more) previous employees of these now "almost" defunct OEM suppliers realize a living can be made using the various web auction sites as a marketing resource.

Grand Prairie, Radian, etc., need to have recognition for keeping the fire burning in the supply line or the outlook will flicker away with the rest of us.

Bottom line be damned, fill the void, keep building and enjoying the early design efforts from the founders of audio and maintain the spirit of quality sound reproduction.

Call me an audio zealot and screw Bose, H K, outcome based education and the "current" body politic.

flame on dammit ..... !