Absolute Polarity: Are you In or Out?

Which configuration do you prefer? I find my 4425s sound more natural electrically Out but acoustically In phase, where:

Amplifier +/Positive/Red terminal > Speaker +/Positive/Red terminal would considered to be of Reversed absolute polarity
and
Amplifier +/Positive/Red terminal > Speaker -/Negative/Black terminal would be considered to be In absolute polarity

were a positive DC voltage applied to the +/Positive/Red terminal of a woofer would result in an inward cone motion, provided that your speaker system follows that wiring convention

Particularly in the first few octaves, the differences are most apperant with material that contains lot`s of low frequency percussive information, it just gels more coherently with the rest of the spectrum.
The effect is diminished the further up the frequency range you go, stereo imaging, instrument placements etc. dont seem to be affected much if at all.
It`s worth mentioning that there were no other polarity inversions further up stream in various gain stages, that was confirmed with my trusty SCV PC-80, but that might not be the same in your case.

If you havent yet experimented, I encourage you to give it a try, you may be pleasantly surprised by the results!

I used to have an Adcom preamp and CD player and one of them had a polarity choice on the remote... I don't remember if it was the pre or CD, but it was damned convenient to flip back and forth on the fly from my listening position. I was pretty convinced I heard a real difference between the two choices... since you never know which polarity convention a particular recording has used, you can't say that either position is always "absolute", but it was very interesting to flip back and forth.

After going through this a number of times with many recordings over a fairly long period of time, I ultimately decided that I couldn't come to any rock solid conclusions... I couldn't even say that a particular recording sounded best in position A or B all of the time. I ventually decided that absolute polarity wasn't something that I was sensitive to... kind of convenient really. ;)


Widget

I think it depends upon which universe in which you exist, matter or anti-matter, right? Or is this a trick question? I would like the kick drum positive pulse to equal a positive pulse in my room.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by audiomagnate

I think it depends upon which universe in which you exist, matter or anti-matter, right? Or is this a trick question? I would like the kick drum positive pulse to equal a positive pulse in my room.

---

So confusing, this issue. Another trick question. Does the kick drum, when struck, cause a compression or rarefaction waveform in the room?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DavidF

So confusing, this issue. Another trick question. Does the kick drum, when struck, cause a compression or rarefaction waveform in the room?

---

Kick drum is the same as any other wave form. Frequency is between 50 and 70 hz but is very short lived so it seems more like a pulse. Phasing should not really make any difference appart from at the crossover frequency. Even if drivers are time aligned, by the time the sound reaches the listener, everything is out of phase anyway.

Allan.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr. Widget

I used to have an Adcom preamp and CD player and one of them had a polarity choice on the remote... I don't remember if it was the pre or CD, but it was damned convenient to flip back and forth on the fly from my listening position. I was pretty convinced I heard a real difference between the two choices... since you never know which polarity convention a particular recording has used, you can't say that either position is always "absolute", but it was very interesting to flip back and forth.

After going through this a number of times with many recordings over a fairly long period of time, I ultimately decided that I couldn't come to any rock solid conclusions... I couldn't even say that a particular recording sounded best in position A or B all of the time. I ventually decided that absolute polarity wasn't something that I was sensitive to... kind of convenient really. ;)


Widget

---

My Marantz SA7S1 SACD player has an 'inverted Phase' button on the unit itself. Although I have yet to really sit down & try this out more than a couple of times, the OP question has me wondering about this. Mr Widget's response was my initial reaction to this feature. Perhaps I need to do some more listening with various recordings.:dont-know:

Doesn't Bose pretend their Waveguide system sounds "better"? :D One listener may probably enjoy the special effect of sound being out of phase, but smoking a spliff before siting down for listening to music probably brings the same effect... ;) My point is that when the left source fights the right one, then all that comes out is a flat sound. You'll loosing your kick and the overall impact. If my system sounded "better" with one channel's polarity reversed, then I would check if all drivers are properly connected...

My question is if you could control it, why wouldn't you? I can and I do and yes, I sleep better at night.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lee in Montreal

Doesn't Bose pretend their Waveguide system sounds "better"? :D One listener may probably enjoy the special effect of sound being out of phase, but smoking a spliff before siting down for listening to music probably brings the same effect... ;) My point is that when the left source fights the right one, then all that comes out is a flat sound. You'll loosing your kick and the overall impact. If my system sounded "better" with one channel's polarity reversed, then I would check if all drivers are properly connected...

---

From what I am readying, it sounds like it flips polarity for both channels ...
Sound starts with drivers pull away instead of a push toward - or some such thing ...

Still sounds esoteric to me.

Aaaahhh, another really tricky subject, that I personally put in the same category as oxygen free monster cables and antivibration pads for MP3 players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hjames

From what I am readying, it sounds like it flips polarity for both channels ...
Sound starts with drivers pull away instead of a push toward - or some such thing ...

Still sounds esoteric to me.

---

The term "absolute" polarity is just that... the polarity of the recording and playback chain... i.e. when the drum was struck, the sound was initially captured by a mic with a positive electrical pulse... during the recording, mixing, mastering, storing, transferring, and eventual reproduction in your home, the polarity was changed many times... the idea is that it should be in the same polarity as it was originally created. I get that... can't say that I hear a consistent difference or "correctness".

Reversing the polarity of only one channel is plainly audible and is quite different.


Widget:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lee in Montreal

Doesn't Bose pretend their Waveguide system sounds "better"? :D One listener may probably enjoy the special effect of sound being out of phase, but smoking a spliff before siting down for listening to music probably brings the same effect... ;) My point is that when the left source fights the right one, then all that comes out is a flat sound. You'll loosing your kick and the overall impact. If my system sounded "better" with one channel's polarity reversed, then I would check if all drivers are properly connected...

---

Messing with relative polarity is just plain retarded. I`ve seen it done with radio`s, tv`s and such marketed as a space enhancer or whatever but I find the effect most annoying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr. Widget

The term "absolute" polarity is just that... the polarity of the recording and playback chain... i.e. when the drum was struck, the sound was initially captured by a mic with a positive electrical pulse... during the recording, mixing, mastering, storing, transferring, and eventual reproduction in your home, the polarity was changed many times... the idea is that it should be in the same polarity as it was originally created. I get that... can't say that I hear a consistent difference or "correctness".

Reversing the polarity of only one channel is plainly audible and is quite different.


Widget:

---

Hi Widget, Something else to make phasing with dums more interesting, depending on which side of the "skin" the Mic is placed the electrical pulse would be either positive or negative. But you are right in saying that the phasing is changed so many times along the way that no one knows how it is supposed to be.

Allan.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike F

Which configuration do you prefer?

---

I don't care.

A bit OT but in a live performance I do care for the same polarity of the sound of the natural speaker/singer and the sound of the PA.
____________
Peter

Absolute Phase

When a musician plays a note on the trumpet in Figure 1. air is forced from the trumpet first as a compression of the air followed by a reduction in air pressure called a rarefaction. The MIKE in the picture converts the compressions and rarefactions produced by the trumpet into an electrical voltage.

http://www.omegamikro.com/images/ap_f1_ip.jpg

The voltage is in absolute phase with the sound waves if a positive voltage corresponds to a compression and a negative voltage corresponds to a rarefaction. This voltage gets converted into pits (by the CD manufacturer) and when played back on your sound system will either reproduce the original note in the same absolute phase as the original, Figure 1., or in inverted phase with the original, Figure 2.

Why should absolute phase be obvious to the listener? I believe it has to do with rather recent research that shows that our inner ears’ hair cells are easier to bend in one direction than in the other. Prior research found no difference in the way we hear the absolute phase of pure tones so many in the audio business believed that the ear was not sensitive to absolute phase when listening to music or voice.

http://www.omegamikro.com/images/ap_f2_ip.jpg

Since many recording studios paid little attention to absolute phase it’s not unusual to encounter multi-miked recordings in which some of the instruments are in absolute phase and others are inverted, e.g., listen to the piano on the original release of track 1 of Miles Davis’ Kind Of Blue. The piano was recorded out of absolute phase and sounds obviously wrong (although beautifully played).

Fortunately, you can arrange your system to be sure a properly recorded source plays back through your speakers in absolute phase. All speaker manufactures color code their speaker terminals so that a positive-going voltage at its red or positive terminal will cause the speaker cone to move forward from its enclosure to create a compression.

To test that your system is in absolute phase, I recommend playing no more than a one-minute portion of a Mapleshade (or other CD where absolute phase has been correctly recorded) recording of a solo piano. Piano notes have a distinct attack and decay that we’re all pretty familiar with. When your sound system is in absolute phase the piano notes will sound sharp and clean. If in reverse phase the notes will sound almost backwards and slightly softer. If you want to reverse the phase of your system all you have to do is to reverse your speaker cables at the amplifiers. Please see Clark Johnsen’s ”the Wood Effect” for a more in-depth description of absolute phase and its history.

Link to the wood effect:
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue1/cjwoodeffect.htm