View Full Version : 5235 Crossover- XLR to RCA adaptors
Greetings- The 5235 crossovers arrived safely a few days ago (Thanks again Dave) and now it's time to give them a test ride (first time for me). I looked through the 5235 manual and if I uderstand it correctly, if I want to use an XLR to RCA adapter ( in order to use my regular RCA interconnects), pin 3 (hot) on the XLR must be connected to the center pin (+) of the RCA connector (female).If memory serves me correctly, I thought that the AES standard was Pin #1= ground, Pin #2=HOT (non inverted), and Pin#3= COLD (inverted). A quick search of the internet and I found a few inexpensive (less than 5 bucks each) adapters, but I beleive that the ones that did specify their hookup, all listed Pin#2 as being hot. So, before I ramble on and confuse everyone further, is there an inexpensive source for these adapters (Two XLR male to RCA female, Four XLR Female to RCA female) that are oriented correctly for the 5235 crossover? If not, and I need to make them up myself, do I need to connect the third wire coming off of the XLR ,and if so, where is the best place to solder it?( to reduce/eliminate hum). Thanks very much, wpod Ps- I did try a search first , but could not find this explained anywhere.
Zilch
03-06-2006, 06:21 PM
Indeed, 5235 is from an era when JBL and the industry standard were out of sync.
I believe the only consequence of using current standard cables would be phase inversion, though I've never done that. If ground loop problems develop (hum), return the cables.
Same with the inputs, which I do all of the time.
To be perfectly correct, you have to make up custom cables, yes. I don't mess with that....
I will refer you to this article which explains connecting balanced to unbalanced equipment reasonably well.
http://www.jensentransformers.com/an/an003.pdf
Robh3606
03-06-2006, 06:47 PM
It might be easier to use the screw down strips. You are going unbalanced anyway. You can get low capacitance phono cables at Radio Shack that are terminated with an RCA on one end and stripped and tinned on the other. If they are long enough they work just fine without going through the trouble purchasing loose XLR's and cables to make them up.
I believe the only consequence of using current standard cables would be phase inversion, though I've never done that. If ground loop problems develop (hum), return the cables.
Well no you short the outputs to ground if you go unballanced. Take a look in the 5235 manual.
Rob:)
Zilch
03-06-2006, 07:26 PM
Well no you short the outputs to ground if you go unballanced. Take a look in the 5235 manual.Granted, if the standard balanced to unbalanced cable connects one of the output phases to ground of the unbalanced input, does it matter whether that is the Hi or Lo?
Using the barrier strip screw terminal outputs on the 5235 seems the easiest and cheapest route to making the connection....
Robh3606
03-06-2006, 07:34 PM
Granted, if the standard balanced to unbalanced cable connects one of the output phases to ground of the unbalanced input, does it matter whether that is the Hi or Lo?
I see your point on the inputs they invert but look at the outputs. If pin 3 is always hot+ with the 5235 balanced and unbalanced and you use an Unbalanced Standard XLR to RCA Pin 2 Hot cable on the outputs with pin 1 and 3 are tied to ground??? Looks like you just shorted the output to ground. It's odd because the outputs are pin 3 hot with 1 and 2 tied together. Take a look at it and see what you think.
http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Vintage%20JBL-UREI%20Electronics/JBL-5235%20manual.pdf
Rob:)
If you use the –ve out you will reverse the phasing to the next stage
If the output is electronic and not fully floating it won’t work to good. It depends how they designed and built the balanced driver stage whether it works at all.
It will work better with the +ve but not to good either if it is not a fully floating line driver.
Fully floating line drivers are not so common as they cost more to make.
Installing transformers or converting the next stage to balanced electronic input may be your best option if you are using it for a stereo at home.
Zilch
03-06-2006, 07:51 PM
Sure it does pin 3 is always hot+ with the 5235 balanced and unbalanced. If you put an Unbalanced Pin 2 Hot cable in it pin 1 and 3 are tied to ground so there goes your signal.ACK!!! I see that now. 5235 outputs are UNbalanced, pins 1 and 2 are connected internally....
Rob's right, and I've learned something again here! :D
Well, that makes it even easier using the barrier strip....
[Hasn't THIS been fun? :p ]
boputnam
03-07-2006, 10:03 AM
Yes, the 5235 is unbalanced.
Use the barrier strip connections, like Zilch suggests. Go from there to your single-enders and you will be fine.
The 5234A is unbalanced, too.That is why I moved away from it.
grumpy
03-07-2006, 10:40 AM
Balanced in, unbalanced out, non-standard pinnage. Plenty of explanation in the FM. Rob pointed out the URL ... 'nuf said? -grumpy
4313B
03-07-2006, 10:49 AM
Yes, the 5235 is unbalanced.Fess up. You're all unbalanced...
grumpy
03-07-2006, 10:51 AM
heh... with non-standard pinnage.
Zilch
03-07-2006, 12:28 PM
Use the barrier strip connections, like Zilch suggests.Rob's idea, actually. :thmbsup:
Me, I'd still be scratchin' my head trying to figure out why the XLR cables didn't work.... :p
Rob's idea, actually. :thmbsup:
Me, I'd still be scratchin' my head trying to figure out why the XLR cables didn't work.... :p
Me, I'd like to know how hard it would be to just flip the wires INSIDE the unit.:p
Sort of head off the pinout problem before it :biting: me! I read the manual the other day, but already forgot about the pin 3 hot thing till I saw this thread!:o:
I recently went through all my mics to check polarity, the only one that I could not flip to current pin 2 hot standard was a SM-87, pins go right to a circuit board... Not into taking it further apart, so it sports a label "Negative Polarity".:banghead:
boputnam
03-07-2006, 01:37 PM
I recently went through all my mics to check polarity, the only one that I could not flip to current pin 2 hot standard was a SM-87, pins go right to a circuit board... Not into taking it further apart, so it sports a label "Negative Polarity".:banghead::no:
I just checked the users manual. Pin2 = hot. That is convention, and makes sense.
I'm not sure what modified Shure you got, 4343!!
Robh3606
03-07-2006, 02:43 PM
Me, I'd like to know how hard it would be to just flip the wires INSIDE the unit.:p
A pain. The XLR's are soldered into the board. So unless you want to start cutting lands and adding jumpers stick to the terminal strip.
Rob:)
Instead of making up custom cables as I had first considered, I found some inexpensive ($21.00 for six - delivered), 2 male and 4 female XLR to female RCA adaptors on Ebay. I spoke with the seller about the problem with needing pin #3 hot, and he assured me that it wouldn't be too much trouble to dismantle the unit and switch the two connections inside. Fortunately, I own one of the inexpensive Desoldering guns (Hakko 808) which should aid in the reconfiguration of these six adaptors. I'll keep you posted when the adapters arrive,to let you know if this is a worthwhile project or not. later, wpod
:no:
I just checked the users manual. Pin2 = hot. That is convention, and makes sense.
I'm not sure what modified Shure you got, 4343!!
Sorry, I typo-ed!:o: Meant SM-81. Pin 3 hot on early models...
Tom Loizeaux
03-09-2006, 07:43 PM
Though I like the info, these kind of threads drive me nuts!
I have several 5235 crossovers and I wired them following Rane's wiring practice chart. They all seem to work fine...but now I'm not comfortable knowng that I MAY HAVE wired them incorrectly at the JBL end!
I'll have to pull out all the units, cables, and check polarity and referance them to the various factory wiring charts...!
Wouldn't standardization be wonderful? !
Tom
Zilch
03-10-2006, 01:25 AM
It's worse, Tom: jkc's Jensen Transformer link tells how to rework the outputs. :banghead:
Screw it. I'll use short cables.... :p
kartsmart
03-15-2006, 03:31 PM
just found this place and there prices seem very good ,Just bought some for my dbx studio rack. :bouncy:
http://www.deepsurplus.com/s.nl?sc=2&category=311&it=A&id=1286
kartsmart
03-15-2006, 03:35 PM
also this one
http://www.deepsurplus.com/s.nl?sc=2&category=311&it=A&id=1286
13769Received the four male XLR@ $2.50 each, 2 female@ $2.75 each from Ebay seller "rdana" in four days (from west coast) for $21.05 delivered Priority mail. Overall quality is good, not a Neutrix, but good. Disassembly is easy although you have to turn setscrew clockwise to disassemble the XLR end of each unit. Conversion to "Pin 3 Hot" should be fairly straightforward and easily accessible, just need to desolder blue wire and reattach to to pin #3 as well as ungrounding pin #3 and grounding Pin #2. As the case (body) of the XLR plug is also ground, I think a small jumper from Pin#2 to setscrew pin ground will suffice. I'll give an update when I've completed the conversion. Regards , wpod
Ian Mackenzie
03-17-2006, 11:42 AM
I have a JBL 5235 and tried it "once" with stock Cannon XL connectors . It seemed to work okay but probably because my amps are not signal grounded to via a mains earth.
I suggest making up an inline pin to pin adapter for both in and outputs using appropriate sockets/plugs and a short length of cable..
Ian
boputnam
03-17-2006, 12:10 PM
I recommend just using the barrier strips going to the single-enders for your pre-amp end. I can't imagine there is much more than a cosmetic reason to hassle with the XLR Pin3 re-wiring...
Took all of 55 minutes to complete conversion and really didn't need the desoldering gun.Timewise and money invested ($21.05) seems like the practical way to go, plus I can use my standard shielded RCA interconnects. Already have one channel up and running, no hum ,no issues. Now I just have to reread that manual a few more times to be able to properly tweak it. The whole phase/polarity thing has me a bit confused, but I think that I can sort it out. Any specific do's or don'ts for the fine tuning? The crossover is between a 4648A cabinet (2-2226J) tuned to 40Hz and a 2445J on a 2380 horn. Thanks, wpod
Zilch
03-17-2006, 02:07 PM
The crossover is between a 4648A cabinet (2-2226J) tuned to 40Hz and a 2445J on a 2380 horn. Thanks, wpod800 Hz FFBREQ cards? That's gonna work great. Put a capacitor in series with each 2445J sized per the 5235 manual recommendation to protect against DC and transients.
My 5235's quietly turn on and off, but my amps don't always....
boputnam
04-12-2007, 10:35 AM
Hey, Heather...
This looks exactly like what you were needing, and confirms my suspicion. If you don't have the full 5235 manual, now you do (me too!)!! ;)
I looked through the 5235 manual and if I uderstand it correctly, if I want to use an XLR to RCA adapter (in order to use my regular RCA interconnects), pin3 (hot) on the XLR (5235) must be connected to the center pin (+) of the RCA connector (female).:yes:
Indeed, 5235 is from an era when JBL and the industry standard were out of sync.:yes:, but the industry merely got it wrong - their intelligence was bad...
hjames
04-12-2007, 01:32 PM
Yeah - thanks - I thought I'd seen something about this last year - figured the Pro sound guys would know best ... so - I need to buy another 4 XLRs to convert into adapters and just give them away with the 5235 if I let it go and keep the (more flexible) 552 Active crossover.
Off to my eBay source (rdana again)!
Hey, Heather...
This looks exactly like what you were needing, and confirms my suspicion. If you don't have the full 5235 manual, now you do (me too!)!! ;) :yes:
:yes:, but the industry merely got it wrong - their intelligence was bad...
Heather- Although I admit it was a great learning experience for me working with the 5235 crossover, if you have access to a 552 unit, you can't switch it in fast enough. Although I'm not using the 552 in my original setup anymore (4648A/2445/2380), it does a fine job biamping my 4343s running four identical IPC AM 1027 theatre amps. Enjoy it, regards, wpod
hjames
04-13-2007, 05:32 AM
Yeas - finding the 552 was like the joy you experience when you stop banging your head on the wall ... ahhhh.
The point here is to test the 5235 that I bought just to be sure its in good shape before I post it to eBay. And finding my existing XLR adapters didn't work!
So, I'll buy a second set of 6, modify them so they work with the 5235, then probably sell that set of "XLR connectors wired for JBL 5235" either here or ebay ...
I just don't want to modify the connectors I will use with the 552 ...
The joy of Standards is that there are so many to choose from!
Heather- Although I admit it was a great learning experience for me working with the 5235 crossover, if you have access to a 552 unit, you can't switch it in fast enough. Although I'm not using the 552 in my original setup anymore (4648A/2445/2380), it does a fine job biamping my 4343s running four identical IPC AM 1027 theatre amps. Enjoy it, regards, wpod
boputnam
04-13-2007, 11:33 AM
So, I'll buy a second set of 6, modify them so they work with the 5235, then probably sell that set of "XLR connectors wired for JBL 5235" either here or ebay ...Skip it. Save yourself the hassle... ;)
Get a multi-meter, check continuity between Pin3 and the barrier-strip (+) - these are parallel inputs (see 5235 Manual excerpt, below). If it checks good, use some of your scrap RCA leads (I think that is what you are using? If not, take an end off the XLR cables...) and connect to the barrier strips and run it.
I'm sure it will work fine - JBL built these really well.
hjames
04-13-2007, 11:42 AM
Thanks, but I already got my confirmation from Hong Kong late yesterday - they have shipped and I'll have them in 7-10 days.
XLR to rca female - what's not to like?
I can always sell the modified connectors for cost here...
But thanks for all your help.
Skip it. Save yourself the hassle... ;)
Get a multi-meter, check continuity between Pin3 and the barrier-strip (+) - these are parallel inputs (see 5235 Manual excerpt, below). If it checks good, use some of your scrap RCA leads (I think that is what you are using? If not, take an end off the XLR cables...) and connect to the barrier strips and run it.
I'm sure it will work fine - JBL built these really well.
Zilch
04-13-2007, 12:05 PM
For the record, it's only the output connectors need modifying. The inputs are balanced, and although inverted, they'll work with RCA/XLR cables.
It's the outputs that are the problem, as they are UNbalanced, and the standard XLR/RCA cables just short them.
A common "Work-around" is to use the terminal strip outputs instead, as Bo suggests above.... :thmbsup:
[Reconfiguring the XLR connections inside the unit is difficult.]
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