EN3 project, Resurrected.

[Nightbrace]

I gave up on this project a couple weeks ago, but with some inspiration from a few of you guys, and my newly acquired L112's, I am reviving them from the dead. I think I want to go with some horns instead of the LE25's I was planning. And have decided to use the woofers and mids from the L112.

Although the cabinets for the L112 are rather nice looking, I wasn't at all thrilled with the sound, but the woofers were perfect and sound great and I paid less for the entire speaker system than what the woofers are going for.

If and when I complete these, whats left of the L112's will be sold here and I will donate whatever I get to LH. Sound good to you guys?

What horns will work well with these drivers that will fit in the 077/075 opening of the EN3?

I'll worry about the crossovers once I get the horns decided on, :)/.

[Zilch]

As a "Senior Member," it's time you started doing your own legwork here.

Go to the site Library and look up the horn dimensions.

Compare to your EN3 box.

Sounds like you're proposing to use the L300 horn as the tweeter in your project.

Better read up on stuff.... :yes:

[grumpy]

Well... you could put a, er, 077/2405 in the hole. Would be a franken-L65 of sorts
but other than that you'd be on your own, crossover-wise. I personally wouldn't
suggest mixing an LE5-x and a compression midrange driver (as it seems you
are proposing), but that's just me.

Heck, there are those using LE5 variants -as- horn-loaded drivers with positive
results. Stick -that- in your EN3! :D

Seriously (at least as serious as this thread can be):
if you could describe what you didn't like about the L112's it might help...
then again, it might not. If they're setup right and not broken, I like L112's quite a bit.
If you are fond of a more in-your-face midrange or more "pounding" bass or more sizzle
to your cymbals, and the range of adjustment didn't get you there, then finding the
sound of a speaker you -do- like (regardless of maker or price) and have actually
spent time with might provide us with a better understanding of your goal(s).

Regards,

-grumpy

[duaneage]

The L112 is a fine system. It has the same drivers as the 4411. Do what you want (they're yours anyway) but if they were mine I would tweak the crossover networks and experiment with them rather than gut and plunder for something else. The drivers in the L112 are some of the best, especially the 128H. Read up on crossover networks, the Loudspeaker Design Cookbook would be a good place to start. I think you could get better sound out of the 112s than the EN3.

[Nightbrace]

Why do I like the idea of using the EN3's? Well whats not to like, they are large cabinets, and look beautiful, and with the right drivers and crossovers they could be REALLY special,. I guess you guys don't think so :(/

With my new appreciation for the imaging qualities of the L96 and L50 which use a similiar vertical postioning of the drivers, I decided not to abandon this project. I just want a set of floor standing speakers for the front room and the L96/50 didn't fit the bill. These EN3's just seem like the ticket to have my cake and eat it too as I wasn't too impressed with either of these speakers except for what the placement of the drivers could do,

What I don't like about the L112 is the soft midrange. The L36 I have produce a more pleasing and accurate midrange compared to the L112, at least to my ears. The highs of both are overall very pleasing to me. I am totallly impressed with the bass of the L112 which is nearly perfect for such a small cabinet, imagine how good they'd be in the EN3's/


I am very unskilled when it comes to crossover design, and the VAST MAJORITY on the LH forums seem to like the more complicated designs of the L112/96/50 as opposed to the L100/36 design. I personally don't see what these designs do to improve the midrange as the L112 is not as detailed as a much cheaper L36. The highs I'd say were nearly equal, although the L112 did go a bit higher. With a driver thats far better than the outdated LE25-4, how can this be if the crossover is that much better? I was expecting to be overwhelmed, but my overall view of the L112, was one of disappointment. They are generally soft speakers unless very hard tracks are played, with quality vocals they were flat out boring. Its not that I don't like the L112, they are very nice and smooth and very pleasant and MUCH more versatile than the L36. They just didn't POP with great recordings the way I was hoping. I guess I was just expecting too much. They are just not as involving or as accurate overall, again an opinion which seems to be contradictory to what is believed here. I guess I could be wrong in my evaluations, but I think its more a preference than anything.


I recently heard a set of L300's which were really impressive which lead me to the idea of using horns for tweeters. I always liked the Altec 19, which you guys also don't seem to like :(, and horns seem like the answer for higher frequncies, at least to me. I never wanted to use the drivers, just the horns, they appeared to have the same opening as the L65 he had, which would work perfectly for the EN3's/ Maybe I could get a set of TAD drivers for them :)/

Sorrry Zlich, you are right I need to start doing my own work, :banghead: just was asking for opinions, thats all, and I apologize! I removed the post.,

I am currently running PAudio 12" Plus drivers which are ruler flat from 20-20,000Hz. In a blind A/B I preferred them to the coveted EV 15TRX's.
Nothing I have heard made by JBL, except maybe the 250Ti can compare.
I never heard these 2 in a direct A/B, but at the same Db level I'd imagine them to be very similiar. I totally fell in love with the 250Ti, but unfortunately cannot afford them :(.

SO I guess I am basically trying to build a speaker that has the qualities of the vertical array of the L96, the bass quality of the L112 woofers, and the quality that horns can bring to the highs similiar to the L300 and Altec 19. But without sacrifyicing the midrange. BTW, IMO the XPL160's I heard have the BEST midrange I have ever heard, even better than the 250Ti, but the bass sucked. Hope this helps to give you guys an understanding of what I like.

[grumpy]

NB, I don't think anyone is dissing the EN3. It's a cabinet. I'd use 'em if I had 'em. JBL suggested (at one time) 2202 or 2203 with a 4" duct, 2307/11/12+2308 lens + 2402/5/3 in the 1980 pro catalog. ...add a 2410 or 2420/1/6, a modified crossover (possibly dialing back the horns more), and you've got a mini 4333 or L300... sort of. This is a custom job no matter how you look at it... -grumpy

[Nightbrace]

Ok, I have decided to keep the 128H woofers, the Mids are okay for now (LE5-12's), but would like to build a poor man's L300. But where to find the LE85 compression drivers, horns and lenses? Will either the 077 or 075 work with these compliments? Or would one be superior to the other?

I know very little about crossover design, but would the L300 crossovers be a good place to start, or will they be giving a bit too much to the 128H woofer?

Has anyone run the curves for the woofers in the L300? Just like to see how they would compare to the EN3 with the 128H. Luckily I have the L200B's to compare to, but presently they blow away the EN3's with the set-up I have.

Should I maybe just stick with the L200B's or do you guys think the EN3's with these transducers with the proper crossover set-up would be a worthwhile endeavor?

[Robh3606]

Hello Nightbrace

What are you looking for, you seem all over the block. The L200B's use the same woofers as the L300. Stick with them and add an 077/2405 to make L300 out of the L200B's. There are lots of things you can do with the cabinets. I would work on the L200/300 first.

Rob:)

[Nightbrace]

I really don't want to modify the L200B's, I liked the L300 better. I just can't afford them, and was contemplating reworking my EN3's to surpass my L200B's.

If this project is a dead end, and the 128H woofers will just never measure up to the 136A's, Hmm, should I just be happy with the L200B and forget about the whole thing?