SUB1500+ ideas

[grumpy]

One I -know- is not new: DIY 4435 w/ one 2234 substituted, and with required
crossover and volume/tuning changes... I've come into 4 2225 frames, but they're
not at my house yet (could be a while). Thinking that if four 2234's can embarrass
a B460 (recent post), then adding a SUB1500 would be overkill for my needs,
but it does sound entertaining :-)

The other is a DIY Everest with bottom. 8ft3 can more than house the needs for an
E145 hi-passed at 50Hz, tuned to ~60Hz as well as a sub1500 with a
linkwitz-transform EQ (perhaps a switchable 12-15Hz HP also). At 20" deep,
perhaps the SUB could be placed on the side (if these didn't go in corners)
without affecting the aesthetics much.
Guess I could cut a hole and add a partition if I ever get around to cutting wood
and actually like how they sound, midbass on up.

Why am I rambling? Mostly trolling for thoughts and experience in mixing "fast" and
"slow" bass transducers (how to integrate without losing the magic of either). I can
do computer modeling all day long (got a spice simulation of the Everest xover
tweaked up to look like the published voltage drive curves...) but it doesn't compare
to experience. Got ported SUB1500 enclosures to play nicely with L112's with a
UREI 525 to do the dividing, but 128H would seem to be a different animal than
the 2234 or E145 (light cone, big motor).

-grumpy

[grumpy]

Cool. I'll come back w/ this when I've got something to show instead of just bench
racing... looking back, it was a rather busy post.

Cheers, -grumpy :)

[johnaec]

Mostly trolling for thoughts and experience in mixing "fast" and "slow" bass transducers (how to integrate without losing the magic of either).I've often wondered about this. Is the action of a heavy moving assembly such as in the Sub1500 compensated for by the control provided by the large magnet and power capacity? I.E. - while somewhat inefficient, does the fact that it can safely handle so much power allow for tighter control than you'd think? And if not, would it offset the transient timing equally, (like delaying the whole sound wave equally)? Does a heavier moving assembly inherently have poorer group delay characteristics than a lighter assembly, or can that be compensated for by tighter control with a larger magnetic assembly and powerful amps with sufficient damping factor?

Is any of this related, or do I have the concept wrong?

John

[Robh3606]

Hey Grumpy

I use E-145's with Le14 subs. Dropping those 1500 into my sub cabinets would rock the house I am sure. Sounds like a good combo to me.

Rob:)

[grumpy]

Thanks guys. Yeah, John articulated what I was trying to say. If I read
right, the Linkwitz-Transform has the potential to help with this. I'll need
to build a few more boxes ~2.2ft3 (some w/ holes, some w/o) and just
try it. The other thread that commented on keeping multiple bass drivers in
partitioned/individual space is also interesting along these lines (clean and
articulate bass).
Thanks Rob for commenting on your experience as well. I'm in the "tight" bass
camp and have heard this ruined when frequency extension was the sole goal.

I appreciate your insights... not looking for a design handout.

-grumpy :)

[Robh3606]

"Thanks Rob for commenting on your experience as well. I'm in the "tight" bass
camp and have heard this ruined when frequency extension was the sole goal.

I appreciate your insights... not looking for a design handout.'

-grumpy http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/smile.gif

I hear ya. Well at least you have a nice driver set to play with between 1500 2234/2235 E-145 Le-14. All really good at what they do and all different so playing with as many as you can get your hands on is an advantage. Nothing like trying all the flavors. You really want a balance of good extension and not use that as the last word. Who cares if it goes to 20Hz if you can't get any pitch definition. I also don't think there is a SLOW driver in the bunch. They are all capable over their designed ranges.

Rob:)

[Zilch]

What, then, do we consider to be the "design ranges" of the subject drivers?

1) Sub1500
2) 2234H
3) 2235H
4) E145
5) LE14A
6) LE14H-3

I have my own "Wishful Thinking" list for comparison.... :p

[grumpy]

Hey Zilch,

What parameter space do you mean by "design ranges"? (e.g., frequency, power
handling, distortion, efficiency, ...) I try to review existing applications of each to see
how they were used or integrated with other drivers (by people who do this for a
living when a company's reputation is on the line), individual driver documentation
(when it exists or contributed as "DIY" test results), and the history of
review/experience/comment on each (system and/or driver) to help speed up
the selection process and hopefully avoid buying and misapplying what would
otherwise be high quality drivers.

Comparison space of commercial products:

SUB1500 - Revel sub
2235 - B380 and pro monitor applications
2234 - 4435
E145-8 - DD55000 (home use-wise)
LE14 family - much DIY info here and several JBL products.

To completely define each drivers potential role and use in a DIY system is beyond
my capability. To provide a smidgen of experience (frequency-range-wise), I've been
happy crossing over my DIY SUB1500 cabinets at ~80Hz. Worked great with L112's
sitting on top of the subs.

Right now, my E145's are in poorly tuned (for them) boxes and I have them crossed
over at 200Hz and 1100Hz... I expect them to go lower with the right box/tuning, but
the mid-high integration with the Everest horn/2426H combo is very nice, level and
image-wise.

My tools are my ears, a warble tone CD + RS SPL meter, spice, this site (albeit
filtered a bit) and now WT2 , so I'm not as sophisticated in my reporting capabilities
as some, but happy to contribute where I can.

:cheers:

-grumpy

[Zilch]

I'm askin' frequency range, mostly, recognizing that different box tunings would shift the range a bit. You're saying E145 is good to 1.1 kHz, sounds like, a bit higher than 1 kHz for 2234 and 2235? How about your view of the others?

[grumpy]

Little more to say at the moment. I'll PM you. -grumpy