A loose corollary to "proper drivers properly applied"...

[mikebake]

Actually I kinda posted the proper driver/application post so I could just link to it down the road, but the OTHER one that gets me is the (much more often seen on other forums) "I-can-get-giant-killer-performance-from-a-cheap-solution" kinda post.
i.e. "I found these Zorpo sub drivers sold by Slamma that kick the shit out of all other subs, and only cost $148. They even work well in my car audio cabinets and next to the Definitive Technology that I thought was the best ever, they just KICK ASS and nothing is such a steal, and blahblahblah"
(Okay, a little like the Edirol kid!!)
SHOW ME A REAL FREE LUNCH AND I AM THERE! But then, we know there is always some "catch", some are of performance that isn't going to cut it. Show me the sub driver that really does it ALL, and it ain't $149 or the specs are lying etc. etc. If you want 2242H performance, find a way to pay for a 2242H. There isn't some magic shortcut that equals it. ("Waaah! But that is too much money!" "I thought you wanted 2242H level performance?")
The principle extends all over the audio map; "my 4 inch back-loaded fullrangers rocked the room with LF output greater than (fill in the blank). NO KIDDING?? WOW! Or as some funny smartass on AA said once; "German supermen defeat the laws of physics" (he was in a thread on AvantGarde's).
Okay, the sub1500; yes, it had close to "it all" for cheap, but that was a fluke. There was no reality in that pricing, which is why they all went away in 5 days.
"I can too get huge, clean, high SPL bass from my .4 cu ft cab"

etc. etc.
Surely ya'll have a few of these fun ones to share.
Point is, people seem predisposed to not want to acknowledge the inevitable trade-offs or compromises, which are present to some degree even in a price-no-object scenario. Can't hide from it. What did Paul Klipsch say again? It was a great quote that came down to hiding the compromises.
MBB

[glen]

Jeeze Mike, next thing you'll say that you don't believe that pushed-in domes and disintegrating surrounds "don't effect sound"

[4313B]

Another very nice post Mike.

I think you're hitting hard at my fundamental problems with this forum with your last couple of posts. While I thoroughly enjoy people like Mr. Endriol mucking up other forums on the net I simply don't want to see that garbage here. This isn't a waste dump. And, as a bunch of us have discussed, we've been experiencing a WHOLE LOTTA waste dumping lately.

You're absolutely right. A 2242H is a 2242H and if you want one pony up. What I find so hard to grasp is that there are people coming to this forum not realizing that. I guess I naively thought this site would attract only the people who knew what Lansing was all about. I simply had no idea it would end up the way it has. :dont-know

Every once in awhile I'll go and read all the information Don and Steve and others have so graciously contributed and then I come back to the forums. It just doesn't jive for me. It's kind of disconnected feeling. Oh well... as Don said several times - "You built these forums Giskard."
I guess I f'ed up :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

Point is, people seem predisposed to not want to acknowledge the inevitable trade-offs or compromises, which are present to some degree even in a price-no-object scenario. Can't hide from it. What did Paul Klipsch say again? It was a great quote that came down to hiding the compromises.

Nice! :yes:

[rek50]

I happened on to this site, thirsting for audio information. WOW, am I ever impressed. Studying various posts provided ideas and motivation to aquire JBL components to repair non JBL speakers. The "Repairs" sounded better than the original speakers'


Then I got a pair of 4412's. Great sound to me (Albeit lower "JBL Food Chain"). I was still gathering JBL components (impressed with info of posts) 2214H, 104H-2, 035Ti, L-112 NetWorks, to "Play" with. Understand, this "Audio Thing" is a Hobby to me.

I now realize that my "Play" or asking for info, is "Garbage" to some. It was never my intent to "Pollute" here. I quess my "Play" is due, in part, to my outlook: "It's NOT what you can buy that counts, but rather WHAT you can build".

I don't think that I know more/better than JBL engineers. I don't think I know a better driver choice/application, than JBL. Again, to me it's "Play".

IMO, JBL components are second to none. I hope the JBL Alumni/Brethren can find some satisfaction in my purchasing of JBL components, inspite of me "Playing" with them as I choose.:)

[4313B]

Now rek50 you know you aren't a problem. :scold:

Don't personalize something that has nothing to do with you.

And feel free to play in the DIY sandbox. It's there expressly for that reason.


I now realize that my "Play" or asking for info, is "Garbage" to some. It was never my intent to "Pollute" here.This is just wrong proving once again that I have poor language skills. :p Oh wait... People never see themselves how other people see them (and if they do they usually kill themselves) so the people the statement actually applies to will never get it while the rest who it doesn't apply to will. :banghead: Oh well, it's out there, I tried, I feel better. :rotfl:

[norealtalent]

Partial
... And feel free to play in the DIY sandbox. It's there expressly for that reason.



But please don't pee in the pool http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[4313B]

Yeah, and don't pick up the stinky little brown things covered with sand and put them in your mouth either for crying out loud! :barf:

[edgewound]

I happened on to this site, thirsting for audio information. WOW, am I ever impressed. Studying various posts provided ideas and motivation to aquire JBL components to repair non JBL speakers. The "Repairs" sounded better than the original speakers'


Then I got a pair of 4412's. Great sound to me (Albeit lower "JBL Food Chain"). I was still gathering JBL components (impressed with info of posts) 2214H, 104H-2, 035Ti, L-112 NetWorks, to "Play" with. Understand, this "Audio Thing" is a Hobby to me.

I now realize that my "Play" or asking for info, is "Garbage" to some. It was never my intent to "Pollute" here. I quess my "Play" is due, in part, to my outlook: "It's NOT what you can buy that counts, but rather WHAT you can build".

I don't think that I know more/better than JBL engineers. I don't think I know a better driver choice/application, than JBL. Again, to me it's "Play".

IMO, JBL components are second to none. I hope the JBL Alumni/Brethren can find some satisfaction in my purchasing of JBL components, inspite of me "Playing" with them as I choose.:)

That's a good post, and good thoughts. My interpretation of the new DIY forum was to let people have fun with their JBL tinkering and learn the drivers' limitations/applications and be creative in their projects. Some projects will be plain-fare JBL factory vanilla (read "stock"... clones, ok? no comments please..I think you know what I mean) and range to "check that out....wow...why didn't I think of that?" spectacular. I think the masters' guidance is cool so one doesn't cause undo damage to the killer compression driver with the mondo expensive diaphragm...I mean really, the regulars here are not stupid people...after all, they've discovered JBL, and love it....and some....most...members sit back and watch and read and experiment and enjoy the show....this is what having a hobby is all about. Most weekend golfers would never pay to play again if they feared they were going to be ridiculed and laughed at everytime they swung the club. My Dad was a very respected aerospace contracts executive who used to say "people are no damn good"....and it's proven daily...everywhere...but he demonstrated the philosophy of "what goes around, comes around", and he had many good friends.

[4313B]

My interpretation of the new DIY forum was to let people have fun with their JBL tinkering and learn the drivers' limitations/applications and be creative in their projects.:yes:
Most weekend golfers would never pay to play again if they feared they were going to be ridiculed and laughed at everytime they swung the club.Do you feel people get ridiculed here?

[edgewound]

:yes:Do you feel people get ridiculed here?


Yes...periodically. And the comments carry over to other threads. But that's just people.

[4313B]

And they're no damn good anyway so there you have it.

Let's work on the ridicule issue, perceived or real.

[edgewound]

Let's work on the ridicule issue, perceived or real.

My comments were in agreement with Rek50's thoughts, so I guess maybe I'm not the only one that perceives that concept...whether it is real or perceived.

It's probably more productive to let it go. There can be sooo much misunderstanding at times due to syntactical issues from typing thoughts versus the interpersonal interaction with actually talking with someone face to face...or even on the phone. Yes? No? Maybe so?

Now we're way off topic...:rotfl:

[4313B]

What was the topic? :dont-know

[edgewound]

:rotfl:
What was the topic? :dont-know

You effin' crack me up.

[4313B]

That's quite often my goal. ;)

[mikebake]

There is nothing wrong with what Rek50 is suggesting. This thread really probably belonged somewhere other than DIY. It just bugs me when people are headstrong and won't accept some things as fact.

Anyway, I have no problem with, and indeed enjoy, the mental pursuit of studying various JBL drivers and conjecturing interesting systems using them in ways not seen by JBL. Seems like most of the great drivers pretty much ended up at one time or another in some system that JBL proudced which took greatest advantage of the drivers strength, though. Anyway, as an example, I saw a photo of a system using the sub1500 driver as the VLF end of a nice 4 way full ranger. Now that is neat. I've also seen many homebrews that use 2440-41's, various 10's, 12's and 15's, and 18's from JBL, lots of people using the 2405H, etc. and some of these systems were quite nice, due in no small part to the performance they were able to get out of 45 year old JBL designs.
MBB

p.s. The hard part after picking a nice list of dreamy transducers and hypothesizing a suitable enclosure, is thinking about what kind of monstrosity of a network might be needed, especially given that I generally prefer a 3-4 way, or a 3 way and subs, at least. That is why I'm gonna have to start studying the newer, better generation of digital crossover/EQ/loudspeaker management gizmos. They make it much easier, it seems. (after coming up with a rough map of what oughtta work)

[mikebake]

You're absolutely right. A 2242H is a 2242H and if you want one pony up. What I find so hard to grasp is that there are people coming to this forum not realizing that.



"I thought you wanted something like a 2245H?"
"I do"
"Save up and get one"
"Ehhh, I'd rather not, I'm just screwing around, really"
"I kinda thought so..."

I always thought I shoulda hung onto a 2245H just to pull it out of the box every once in awhile and just admire it. What a neat piece. Yes, I'm a sick person.............

[glen]

"...I shoulda hung onto a 2245H just to pull it out of the box every once in awhile and just admire it. What a neat piece. Yes, I'm a sick person.............


Not so sick, mine are STILL in the box, waiting....

[mikebake]

Not so sick, mine are STILL in the box, waiting....
What do you intend them for? When/where/how did you get them? They're not going to be happy all their life in a box, even if the box is still sealed with the factory air. ;)
They need to move some air, stretch their legs, thump a little Motown while the black girls sing....................

[JuniorJBL]

"I thought you wanted something like a 2245H?"
"I do"
"Save up and get one"
"Ehhh, I'd rather not, I'm just screwing around, really"
"I kinda thought so..."

I always thought I shoulda hung onto a 2245H just to pull it out of the box every once in awhile and just admire it. What a neat piece. Yes, I'm a sick person.............

:rotfl:

[Don Mascali]

Why do we always get down to the erotic fixation we have with our JBLs?

Thats as bad as the guy who was sticking his hand in the ports. Jeeeze!:banghead:

[4313B]

I can't let this one go.


I now realize that my "Play" or asking for info, is "Garbage" to some. It was never my intent to "Pollute" here.I thought I was clear by putting the word Endirol or how ever the hell you spell it in the same paragraph. I'm certainly not going to bother looking up the correct spelling. And after reading over everything I guess I went a bit off topic. I thought the Garbage was quite apparent. One that comes to mind is the Hal Cox thread. I haven't read it in a long time but my perception of the whole thing is still stuck in my mind and it isn't a rosy memory. Another is the JBL can't take no power thread which people actually responded to for some idiotic reason. I would have simply deleted the fucking thing because it belongs on another forum, not Lansing Heritage. Whatever happened with the subwoof issue? Wasn't there a bunch of garbage associated with that? Anyway, the point is, I sure hope rek50 really doesn't feel like his posts asking for info are garbage.

[rek50]

Well now shit... I put the :) at the end of my blabber to try to indicate I wasn't feeling wounded or anything. In a back handed way I was trying to show graditude "WOW, am I ever impressed.", "IMO, JBL components are second to none" and let you know (Giskard) that what you post doesn't fall on "Deaf" ears, (Mine anyway). I offered an alternate point of view as to why people might NOT follow the JBL Doctrine, to sort of present an olive branch, if you will. I remember when you "Put your hat on and booked for awhile"

I don't think you have poor language skills. I probably do. Your sense of humor is a "Kick", don't stop. Again, I wasn't offended, just trying to smooth out the "Water" that I thought I could have been part of stirring. No biggy. I'll go play in the DIY "Box" and leave the turds alone as well as hold my water:D

[4313B]

I'll go play in the DIY "Box"Yeah, I think I'll head over their too...


With a rake... :rotfl:

[hapy._.face]

Another is the JBL can't take no power thread which people actually responded to for some idiotic reason. I would have simply deleted the fucking thing because it belongs on another forum

Yeah, I just bought a used pair of those JBL sub/sat computer speakers and tri-amped em to my Fairchild (top end) and Threshold (bottom end). I put a Crown amp on the cutsie little sub that came with it. They sound like CRAP! What a POS JBL speakers are. Anything over 60wpc- and they are toast. Guess I'll be parting these out- if there's a market for pie plate tweeters...
:homer:

Quote from edgewound:
'...My Dad was a very respected aerospace contracts executive who used to say "people are no damn good"...'

Giskard- did you work for edgewound's dad ?!?

Mr Baker (is it?): Well said as usual. You've been on a roll with the whole 'nail on the head' thing. I'm learnin'.

[mikebake]

Mr Baker (is it?)
It's Master Baker to you................:D

[glen]

What do you intend them for? When/where/how did you get them? They're not going to be happy all their life in a box, even if the box is still sealed with the factory air. ;)
They need to move some air, stretch their legs, thump a little Motown while the black girls sing....................

Got 'em from the tent sale. Intended as super subs running under a pair of dual 15 westlake style monitors. Picked up a second-hand amp from Record Plant to drive them (Australian monitor, mosfet, 800x2@4ohms) Then I got a pair of Augspurger monitors with TAD components. THEN I realized there was no room in my house big enough to handle them and was stymied, at least until I remodel.

As for THUMP, saw a nice big one when I was testing the amp with one 2245. Hit the power switch then remembered the volume was UP (500w@8ohms). I swear the cone jumped at least an inch. Did not bottom out though, and as they say "does not effect sound", still played OK.

NICE speaker.

[hapy._.face]

It's Master Baker to you................:D

lol. yeah? ...not unless I'm learning karate it ain't. Besides, it sounds too much like master baiter. I'll stick with "sir". That's as formal as I get. Just cause I put a blazer on a tshirt- its still no black tie event.

[mikebake]

Got 'em from the tent sale. Intended as super subs running under a pair of dual 15 westlake style monitors. Picked up a second-hand amp from Record Plant to drive them (Australian monitor, mosfet, 800x2@4ohms) Then I got a pair of Augspurger monitors with TAD components. THEN I realized there was no room in my house big enough to handle them and was stymied, at least until I remodel.

As for THUMP, saw a nice big one when I was testing the amp with one 2245. Hit the power switch then remembered the volume was UP (500w@8ohms). I swear the cone jumped at least an inch. Did not bottom out though, and as they say "does not effect sound", still played OK.

NICE speaker.

Okay, okay, you know good shit! Well, you're the only one to sort out your scenario (I can relate) but those 2245's need released! Look, either they obey you (and live in a small room), or you obey them (and build a big room). They really can pressurize a space in a most lovely manner, and they like a big room; however, a savvy bud once suggested that they could be used succesfully in a nearfield setup, meaning he placed them right behind his listening couch and decreased the gain accordingly, and dang if it didn't kinda work. You got what the 2245's were capable of but were able to keep overall actual SPL down and still get the good stuff at the seating position. Hey, I know it's a weird compromise, but it beats getting rid of them!

p.s. 2245H has that great combo of power and glory; strong output with great sound/good transients. There are few like it. Ignore the size and pretend they are small! (Nice advice form a guy who sold his, eh?)

[glen]

... but it beats getting rid of them!


I do not understand this "getting rid" that you speak of?
But I guess a 2245 will beat most anything.



..they could be used succesfully in a nearfield setup, meaning he placed them right behind his listening couch and decreased the gain accordingly, and dang if it didn't kinda work.

This actually sounds like a great idea.
There a space behind a loveseat that might be just right!

[mikebake]

a) Touche'!

b) Good for you! Do it!

[JuniorJBL]

I need a 2245 for my 4345 project.
so do not get rid of them to ePay!!:)